#editorial | Logs for 2015-05-25

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[01:30:10] <Bytram> 👒🎩
[01:31:39] <Bytram> http://www.postgresql.org
[01:31:40] <Scruffy> ^ 03PostgreSQL: PostgreSQL 9.4.2, 9.3.7, 9.2.11, 9.1.16, and 9.0.20 released!
[01:55:13] -!- audioguy [audioguy!~audioguy@Soylent/Staff/Developer/audioguy] has joined #editorial
[02:03:14] <Bytram> http://go.theregister.com
[02:03:15] <Scruffy> ^ 03Bank-heist malware's servers phone home to Russian spookhaus • The Register ( http://www.theregister.co.uk )
[02:03:24] <Bytram> audioguy: hi there!
[02:05:32] <Bytram> break time - biab
[02:05:32] <Bytram> afk
[02:13:02] <Bytram> back
[02:16:09] <paulej72> hi
[02:17:39] <Bytram> paulej72: Hi!
[02:17:58] <Bytram> you have been *really* busy!!
[02:18:05] <Bytram> thanks for knocking out so many bugs!
[02:18:05] <paulej72> are yoe fillin the queue
[02:18:14] <Bytram> yup!
[02:18:26] <paulej72> nice
[02:18:58] <Bytram> someone submitted a link and a complete copy of the linked article as a submission... as an AC who has no history.
[02:19:20] * Bytram does not really feel up to constructing an abstract of it atm
[02:19:26] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[02:19:26] <paulej72> i have been slacking recently with rehash bug fixing
[02:19:27] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN Submission by Anonymous Coward: Tone: An experimental Chrome extension for instant sharing over audio
[02:19:48] <Bytram> slacking? You just knocked out, what, 8 or 10 bugs?
[02:20:01] * Bytram can't imagine you when you're on your game!
[02:20:02] <Bytram> =)
[02:20:17] <paulej72> today yeah, but had not touched it for many days
[02:20:29] <Bytram> it's okay to have a life, yanno?
[02:21:00] <paulej72> and the loc on these bugs were ratther low
[02:22:00] <Bytram> loc can be misleading... a bug can be a single-line fix, but knowing how and where to put it can be a real bear!
[02:22:19] <Bytram> heck, loc could be negative if you need to kill of a bunch of bad code and refactor!
[02:22:27] <Bytram> s/ of / off /
[02:22:41] <paulej72> sure
[02:23:05] * Bytram should prolly post a story on devso I can test if that comes out as an e-mail
[02:24:13] <paulej72> damn i just realize there is still a bug in the read the rest of tis,comment code
[02:24:51] <paulej72> slashd fires off the newsletter emails
[02:25:13] <Bytram> and?
[02:25:18] * Bytram does not see the connection.
[02:25:49] <paulej72> your email should be sent now slash is runnig
[02:26:06] <paulej72> my two comments had no connection
[02:26:20] <Bytram> ahhh, that's why I couldn't put 'em together!
[02:26:44] <Bytram> paulej72: will the e-mail catch up on missed issues, or only post the last day's worth of stories?
[02:27:29] <paulej72> is a daily newsletter so will send the new story i posted today
[02:27:44] <Bytram> got it, thanks!
[02:28:01] * Bytram was curious how well the e-mail will handle UTF-8 chars
[02:28:04] <paulej72> so did i
[02:28:13] * Bytram loads dev
[02:28:56] * Bytram might need a new mouse... it ignores some clicks and then at other times thinks a single click is a double... hilarity does NOT ensue!
[02:29:35] <paulej72> yep classic bad mouse
[02:30:38] <Bytram> strangest part about this one, is the hinge is at the *front* edge of the mouse; the clicky part is nearer the palm. just a bit awkward at times.
[02:33:20] <Bytram> paulej72: here's a potentially straightforward one for ya: I have images turned off in my profile. Though no pics appear with each story, I still see the topic icons at the top of the main page... how hard would it be to supress those, too?
[02:33:51] <paulej72> not sure
[02:35:08] <Bytram> I suppose I could turn on the low-bandwidth option (or whatever it's called in the profile) but I like the site exactly the way it is, except for *that*.
[02:35:53] <Bytram> then again, it's 10:30pm on a sunday on a holiday weekend. why not call things good and get a good night's sleep? You've earned it!
[03:18:33] <Bytram> juggs: CoolHand: n1: and any other Editors around: I just pushed out as many stories as I could. they're spaced about 2.25 hrs apart. If the queue does not replenish, feel free to space them out even more to get us over the holiday weekend.
[03:19:07] <Bytram> ooops! j<tab> was supposed to autocomplete to janrinock, not juggs... so sorry!
[12:54:01] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #editorial
[12:54:01] -!- mode/#editorial [+v janrinok] by SkyNet
[12:54:17] <janrinok> hi guys
[12:56:59] <Bytram> janrinok: just popping in to take a look at things
[12:57:12] <Bytram> looks like gewg_ stepped up to try and fill the sub queue
[12:58:11] <janrinok> yes - may I suggest that we include links to his subs - to help convince his detractors regarding the quality of his subs
[13:00:28] <Bytram> that *is* tempting....
[13:01:16] <Bytram> I'd rather not react to the comments in that story thread. We need, IMNSHO, a level-headed discussion of the sible Pros and Cons, and a decision on how we will move forward, as a team.
[13:01:28] <Bytram> s/sible/possible/
[13:01:42] <Bytram> .op
[13:01:42] -!- mode/#editorial [+o Bytram] by SkyNet
[13:01:46] -!- exec [exec!~exec@utioner/T-800/BeVeryAfraid] has joined #editorial
[13:01:47] <Bytram> .deop
[13:01:47] -!- mode/#editorial [-o Bytram] by SkyNet
[13:02:58] <Bytram> janrinok: I gotta hand it to the community. whenever I felt tempted to butt into the discussion, I just sat on my hands and would eventually see someone else raise the point I wanted to make.
[13:03:29] <janrinok> me too!
[13:03:31] <Bytram> As yet, I have made no comment or moderation in that story
[13:04:03] <janrinok> I'm making a comment now regarding feedback - explaining that we did it until people complained.
[13:04:30] <janrinok> I also suggest a couple of options for fixing that problem
[13:04:32] <Bytram> janrinok: I thought I already saw a comment to that effect in that discussion
[13:04:43] <Bytram> or was that your comment I read? =)
[13:04:51] <janrinok> don't know?
[13:05:19] * Bytram loads the story: https://soylentnews.org
[13:05:21] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN article: Ask Soylent: Are Soylent News Editors Overstepping the Mark? 04(68 comments)
[13:05:37] * Bytram included the link for future reference should I look back in my logs for this discussion
[13:05:59] <Bytram> janrinok: yep, it was you: https://soylentnews.org
[13:05:59] <Scruffy> ^ 03SN comment by [02janrinok (52)] (02Score:2)
[13:06:02] <janrinok> lol
[13:06:15] <Bytram> copy/paste:
[13:06:16] <Bytram> For a period of about 3 - 4 months during mid-2014 we used email to contact submitters to explain why their story had been rejected, how they might improve future submissions or simply say 'well done, but too late'. However, we received complaints from some of the submitters that they had not authorised us to contact them via email and that they considered our emails to them to be spam. After discussio
[13:06:16] <Bytram> n, we decided that we would have to cease feedback via email.
[13:06:16] <Bytram> Now a site specific messaging system is one solution but involves a lot of work for the devs and, so far, there has not been the community demand for such a thing. Alternatively, we could produce a simple web page that lists submitters (say for a period of 14 days after their last submission) and allows a text field to be used to give feedback. It's a little more public, but often there are good sugges
[13:06:19] <Bytram> tions that could be adopted by more than one submitter. Those that want to access it can, those that don't can simply ignore it. If there is enough support for this then it can be done however, it needs to be prioritised along with all the other tasks that the devs currently have.
[13:06:23] <Bytram> END.
[13:07:33] <janrinok> there has been one more response from marand, and another reply from me in the last few mintues
[13:07:36] <Bytram> The elephant in the living room is that we don't have enough good submissions, so we have to make the best of what we get.
[13:08:18] <Bytram> *MY* perspective is that we need to 'Commoditize our Complement' -- make it AS EASY AS POSSIBLE for users to find and submit stories.
[13:08:46] <Bytram> your work on parsing the #rss-bot feed is exactly along those lines
[13:09:06] <janrinok> agreed, and giving feedback makes it a more positive relationship once we do get subs
[13:09:47] <Bytram> nod nod
[13:11:07] <janrinok> I was swapping ideas with crutchy this morning regarding parsing the rss feed. He has passed me some of his code and given me the benefit of his experiences
[13:11:09] <Bytram> taking a break; biab
[13:11:13] <Bytram> afk
[13:36:18] <Bytram> janrinok: one other thought just came to mind; the old site allowed a user to elect to have journal articles submitted as a story -- don't know how useful that would be in light of the current discussion, but I offer it up for consideration.
[13:37:30] <janrinok> I can't see any reason why not - as long as they realise that once it is up for submission it is liable to be edited. I.e. it is not a way to get one's personal views onto the front page.
[13:37:38] * Bytram is goging to try and bang out a quick submission on the upcoming release of an updated Unicode standard
[13:37:54] <Bytram> 'xactly the point I was trying to make...
[13:39:12] <Bytram> another thought is that we would benefit with a 'stronger' statement on the story submission page that we WILL munge / edit / change a submission and will do so as best we can according to the <linky> Editorial Process (or whatever it's called) doc
[13:39:33] <Bytram> but, we ARE human and may botch even that.
[13:39:38] <Bytram> reduce the expectations, yanno?
[13:39:59] <janrinok> well, if you think that would help. I tend to think that a clear statement once they tick the option box would suffice
[13:40:20] <Bytram> "option box"?
[13:40:32] <janrinok> for selecting their journal for submissions
[13:40:41] <Bytram> I'm talking about normal story submissions
[13:41:14] * Bytram wasn't clear; changed my perspective and forgot to hit the directional signal!
[13:41:22] <janrinok> I'm confused - your comment at 1536 suggested journal articles as submissions
[13:41:46] <janrinok> ah, OK
[13:42:04] <Bytram> yes, it did. I went off onto another thought that in the normal course of submitting a story on the submission page, we need to make it more clear that things WILL MOST LIKELY be changed.
[13:42:26] <Bytram> if they want something to appear, without any editing whatsoever, create an account and use a journal
[13:42:33] <janrinok> I wouldn't go overboard on the statement - some might see it as the Eds throwing their weight around.
[13:42:56] <janrinok> But a clear statement at the top of the page in small'ish print saying submissions will be edited would be OK
[13:43:15] <Bytram> maybe, but not TOO small.
[13:43:31] <janrinok> no but flashing bold banner not necessaryu
[13:44:16] <Bytram> <blink>Your submission WILL be edited; resistance is futile</blink>
[13:44:21] <Bytram> =)
[13:44:35] <janrinok> lol
[13:44:40] <Bytram> =)
[13:44:51] <janrinok> S wants to know why I burst out laughing
[13:45:01] <janrinok> it's all your fault
[13:45:07] <Bytram> If you've not already noticed, I have a tendency to take things to their illogical extreme to make sure that nothing is left unnoticed.
[13:45:27] * Bytram waits to find out how you explain THAT html code to her!
[13:45:55] * Bytram is glad to hear you laughed -- laughter is precious and priceless!
[13:45:56] <janrinok> Oh, I find that a simple 'its Bytram again' suffices nowadays
[13:46:02] <Bytram> ROFL!
[13:46:22] * Bytram wonders if you are joking or not!
[13:46:22] <janrinok> ditto to you
[13:46:27] <janrinok> nope
[13:46:44] <Bytram> nope: not joking? I've become a 'thing'??
[13:46:49] <Bytram> !woop
[13:46:49] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[13:46:58] <janrinok> she only remembers a few names - but you and nick are amongst them
[13:47:08] <Bytram> nice!
[13:47:24] <janrinok> you have always been a 'thing' - you should aspire to becoming a person
[13:47:26] <Bytram> if nothing else happens today, that is sufficent for it to have been a good day for me.
[13:47:51] <Bytram> point taken, I think 'thing' was last made by Volkswagon
[13:48:08] <Bytram> or was it on 'The Addams Family'?
[13:48:13] <janrinok> ... I meant her her eyes, of course
[13:48:32] <Bytram> yup
[13:49:25] <janrinok> 'scuse me asking a dimwit question - but what is the html to put a line across a page?
[13:50:26] <Bytram> <hr>
[13:50:31] <janrinok> thanks
[13:50:38] <Bytram> I dunno if we can get away with it, but try this:
[13:50:46] <Bytram> <hr width="50%">
[13:51:19] <Bytram> that'll center a Horizontal Rule (HR) which is 50% the width of the block it is contained in.
[13:51:21] <janrinok> why the 50%
[13:51:26] <janrinok> ah thx
[13:51:29] <Bytram> IIRC, that is.
[13:51:40] <janrinok> looks ok so it is good enough
[13:52:05] <Bytram> is that going into a story or a comment?
[13:52:18] * Bytram has used it in editing a story... doubt it works in comments
[13:52:26] <janrinok> into a story, 2nd of my 2 so far
[13:52:35] <Bytram> nod nod
[13:53:08] <Bytram> Eds can use html elements in stories that are not avail to users submitting stories or comments
[13:55:09] <janrinok> oh, the power!
[13:56:41] <janrinok> I can't see much difference between 50% and just saying <hr>
[13:56:56] <Bytram> hmmm, try using 10% and be sure it is quoted
[13:57:06] <Bytram> <hr width="10%">
[13:57:13] <janrinok> oh it works, but they look pretty much the same
[13:57:33] <Bytram> there should also be a height modifier, too.
[13:57:39] * Bytram loads docs... brb
[13:58:44] <janrinok> it's not that important - I've achieved what I wanted
[13:58:46] <Bytram> found it...
[13:58:49] <Bytram> Syntax <HR>
[13:58:49] <Bytram> Attribute Specifications
[13:58:49] <Bytram> ALIGN=[ left | center | right�] (horizontal alignment)
[13:58:49] <Bytram> NOSHADE (solid line)
[13:58:49] <Bytram> SIZE=Pixels (line height)
[13:58:49] <Bytram> WIDTH=Length (line width)
[13:58:51] <Bytram> core attributes
[13:58:53] <Bytram> common events
[13:59:20] <janrinok> ah, line width uses the same character on FF, no difference noted
[14:00:09] <Bytram> lol: <hr width="2%" size="200"> =)
[14:00:28] <janrinok> you're playing now, aren't you?
[14:01:43] <Bytram> moi?
[14:02:13] <janrinok> oui - toi
[14:02:34] <Bytram> I love writing this out for my Canadian guests:
[14:02:47] <Bytram> We Wii? Oui. Wheeeee!
[14:03:52] <janrinok> wee
[14:04:37] <Bytram> Of course, those are not to be confused with weewee
[14:04:40] <Bytram> nograb
[14:05:00] <janrinok> ah we use wee more than weewee, we do
[14:05:23] <Bytram> oui
[14:05:26] <Bytram> hmmm
[14:05:27] <Bytram> oy!
[14:06:04] <Bytram> looks like there are new Emoji on the way in the next version of the Unicode standard: http://blog.unicode.org
[14:06:06] <Scruffy> ^ 03The Unicode Blog
[14:06:36] <paulej72> is there a pissing Calvin?
[14:06:52] * Bytram looks at 1F91A which is described as 'RAISED BACK OF HAND' and it sure looks to me like the *palm* of a hand... you?
[14:07:00] <Bytram> paulej72: LOL!!!
[14:07:34] <janrinok> ah not if you are standing behind the person holding up the hand....
[14:07:50] <Bytram> doubt we could get that one through, but maybe 'woamn with beehive hairdo' would work for getting in Marge from the Simpsons
[14:08:10] <janrinok> yep, more woamns, that's what we need
[14:08:15] <paulej72> at least we get bacon
[14:08:16] <Bytram> janrinok: I see nothing in the image that differentiates front from back
[14:08:30] <Bytram> paulej72: bacon? I didn't notice that...
[14:08:46] <paulej72> 1F953 BACON
[14:08:54] <Bytram> well, whadayaknow! U+1F953 BACON
[14:09:16] <janrinok> well, if he is holding up the palm of his hand to the person in front of him, then to the person standing behind him.... Nevermind, it wasn't that funny :o
[14:10:04] <Bytram> nice effort, though, thanks for trying to lend a hand
[14:10:26] <janrinok> I did try, but it was back to front
[14:11:04] * Bytram yawns
[14:11:15] * Bytram needs moah coffee
[14:11:19] <Bytram> biab
[14:11:27] <janrinok> go to your BBQ and enjoy yourself
[14:12:20] <paulej72> needs knuckle lines
[14:12:28] <paulej72> and nails
[14:13:25] <paulej72> but making that legible at 12pt type is a bit of an issue
[14:14:06] <janrinok> not up to the challenge, eh?
[14:14:28] <paulej72> did I say I was a graphic artist :)
[14:15:45] <janrinok> but, but, but I thought that you could do _anything_? Ah, my dreams lie around me in bits.
[14:16:18] * paulej72 sucks at art
[14:16:29] <janrinok> you and me both
[14:17:42] <paulej72> now my sister is is almost the opposite side of the coin. Most of the women on my dad's side of the family are artistic above the norm
[14:18:15] <janrinok> ask her to redraw the unicode pse
[14:18:26] <paulej72> :P
[14:20:46] <CoolHand> good morning janrinok
[14:21:17] <CoolHand> and paulej72 :)
[14:21:24] <paulej72> hi CoolHand
[14:23:33] <janrinok> morning CoolHand
[14:23:39] <janrinok> or to me, afternoon
[14:23:49] <CoolHand> inded
[14:23:52] <CoolHand> indeed
[14:23:57] <janrinok> I've just posted the gewg story on spanish school linus
[14:24:01] <janrinok> linux!
[14:24:06] <janrinok> we seem to be duplicating
[14:24:28] <Bytram> CoolHand: hi there!
[14:24:44] <Bytram> *great* job on finding those links for the Russian NGOs story!
[14:24:52] <CoolHand> janrinok: I was in it, then noticed it was "100% same as anoterh" then noticed u were in it and got out
[14:25:13] <Bytram> !grab CoolHand
[14:25:13] <Bender> Added quote 18
[14:25:16] <CoolHand> I jus 2nded it since I'd already read through it all when I was going to post it
[14:25:31] <janrinok> thx - can I suggest, for _gewgs stories at least, we include a link to the original sub. It might help shut up some of his detractors
[14:25:34] <CoolHand> Bytram: it wasn't hard... google did it.. :)
[14:26:02] <Bytram> I'd thought of doing that, but I was too tired at the time to make that extra effort -- thanks for the follow through!
[14:26:25] <janrinok> CoolHand: are you happy if I add the link to your stories?
[14:26:28] <CoolHand> yep, np
[14:26:35] <CoolHand> janrinok: that's fine iwth me
[14:26:42] <janrinok> k
[14:27:36] * Bytram looks at Hubie's Stabilization of Human popultion story
[14:27:50] <CoolHand> janrinok: I was going to change Windoze to Windows also.. He keeps submitting stories like that, and we keep changing it... :)
[14:28:06] <Bytram> as well we should.
[14:28:10] <Bytram> IMNSHO
[14:29:11] <janrinok> yep, I changed it, but he does persist. However, he has put in half a dozen good posts with only minor niggles. And it shows that, more often than not, he is not adopting a left-wing stance on everything
[14:29:26] <CoolHand> janrinok: agreed
[14:30:00] <CoolHand> ok, I'm outta here again.. just thought I'd check in.. been busy all w/e helping oldest kid remodel house he's moving into
[14:30:21] <CoolHand> c ya'll l8r.. :)
[14:30:21] <Bytram> good luck with that -- there's always more to it than first meets the eye!
[14:30:28] <paulej72> have fun CoolHand
[14:37:15] <janrinok> any eds still here
[14:37:18] <janrinok> ?
[14:37:24] <paulej72> no
[14:37:30] <Bytram> no
[14:37:52] <paulej72> we have some pretenders though
[14:37:57] <janrinok> we have another 'hot' story - the one about the Senior Muslim Policman
[14:38:40] <janrinok> turgid has mis-quoted the facts to make it rather more 'inflamatory' then is actually being quoted by the press
[14:38:52] <janrinok> than is*
[14:39:18] <Bytram> ugh.
[14:39:24] <janrinok> it's already in the story queue having been edited by CoolHand
[14:40:04] <Bytram> unclick DISPLAY?
[14:40:17] <janrinok> no, but I am going to have to rewrite it
[14:40:23] <janrinok> or at least part of it
[14:40:29] * Bytram opens it to take a look
[14:41:19] <janrinok> Second para - which he claims gives the police the right to interfere with....' The source doesn't say that at all.
[14:41:34] <Bytram> hmmm
[14:41:44] <Bytram> how much editing was done to the story?
[14:42:24] <Bytram> maybe we could retrieve the original sub and preface with a disclaimer, but me fears that would set a dangerous precedent.
[14:42:50] * Bytram clicks Guardian link
[14:43:07] <janrinok> well, the community would prefer that I simply link to the original sub - which I am more than happy to do
[14:43:40] <janrinok> search for Chishty said communities in the original source
[14:45:44] * Bytram clicks that link
[14:49:19] <janrinok> I've saved my changes - which can be substantiated from the quoted material
[14:50:07] <janrinok> If you have a moment can you check the latest saved version pse
[14:50:13] <Bytram> I must be missing things; I really didn't see anything offhand that was radically different between: the Guardian article, the original sub, and the one edited by coolhand
[14:50:38] * Bytram loads your updated copy
[14:51:00] <janrinok> turgid says 'the police want to interfere' - the source says that Chishty suggests that 'family and friends' are best placed to act
[14:51:15] <Bytram> ok
[14:51:30] <Bytram> well, first off, we need a different intro than '$foo writes'
[14:51:40] <janrinok> the police do _not_ want to do this, they are asking the community to help educate against extremism
[14:51:46] <Bytram> nod nod
[14:51:54] <paulej72> $foo copy pastas
[14:52:14] <janrinok> he didn't copypasta - he actually made that claim up
[14:52:44] <Bytram> the point is that with THAT intro, it looks like the whole thing was in his original submission -- it was not
[14:53:19] <paulej72> $foo submitted?
[14:53:19] <Bytram> if you cut/paste stuff from the G artuicle, pls put a blockquote around it
[14:53:47] <Bytram> referrencing a discussion we had among editors a day (or two?) ago
[14:53:51] <Bytram> oh. doh!
[14:54:16] <Bytram> you were offering another phrasing -- I thought you were wondering what I meant!
[14:56:38] <Bytram> janrinok: were the additional paragraphs you added taken directly from the Guardian article? If so, they should be blockquoted
[14:57:24] <janrinok> OK, with you now
[14:57:55] <Bytram> k
[14:58:58] <Bytram> janrinok: I gotta run real soon; can you pls click Update so I can see where things now stand?
[14:59:04] <janrinok> I've changed the intro to 'Turgid suggests a story from the Guardian' and blockquoted the bits from the source
[14:59:21] <Bytram> sounds much better; changes saved?
[14:59:23] <janrinok> done
[14:59:28] * Bytram clicks edity
[14:59:35] * Bytram clicks edit
[15:02:33] <Bytram> janrinok: I'm not at my best right now; don't see anything glaringly wrong with it; I did put ... around the name of the paper -- that's all I can see atm
[15:02:39] <Bytram> changes saved
[15:02:45] <janrinok> k thx
[15:02:52] <janrinok> have a good one!
[15:03:06] <Bytram> much obliged
[15:03:20] <Bytram> btw, that was an excellent catch! Good eyes you had there!
[15:04:09] <janrinok> I want this site to continue as a quality site
[15:04:27] * Bytram checks weather radar and sees a storm headed his way. time to get going!
[15:04:35] <Bytram> have a great day everyone!
[15:04:50] <Bytram> janrinok++ # the eyes have it!
[15:04:50] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 29
[15:05:11] <Bytram> paulej72: I see you checked in some more fixes -- thanks!
[15:05:14] <Bytram> paulej72++
[15:05:14] <Bender> karma - paulej72: 9
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