#editorial | Logs for 2015-03-16
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[01:11:14] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #editorial
[01:11:14] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Bytram|away] by SkyNet
[01:11:49] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[01:13:53] <Bytram> hi all!
[01:14:32] <Bytram> n1: ping?
[01:14:59] <n1> pon!
[01:15:02] <n1> pong!
[01:15:18] <Bytram> pon pons?
[01:15:20] <Bytram> =)
[01:15:27] <Bytram> hey! got a question for ya...
[01:15:38] <Bytram> TLA just made his first story submission - and it looks great!
[01:15:51] <Bytram> but, it's on the solar eclipse...
[01:16:00] <Bytram> and we just ran that story something like 15 hours ago.
[01:16:01] <Bytram> :/
[01:16:12] <Bytram> see his sub: https://soylentnews.org
[01:16:12] <NetCraft> ^ 0304SN Submission by TLA: Total Solar Eclipse Promises to Boost Scotland Tourism
[01:16:37] <Bytram> any way we can merge that in, and if so, do we want to? (I'm conerned as to the precedent it would set.)
[01:17:05] <Bytram> I *think* I can merge it in and get him credit for it, but before I started I wanted to check in with someone else to see if I *should* try.
[01:17:09] <Bytram> thoughts?
[01:17:36] <n1> I get what your theory
[01:17:42] <n1> but really don't think we should do that
[01:18:01] <Bytram> opens pandora's box, in a way
[01:18:19] <n1> yeah, if it was an 'update', maybe
[01:18:33] <n1> but if it's just the same story with no new information, then it's not something we should do in my opinion
[01:19:20] <Bytram> 'cept, this new one has a lot more detail -- more on the perspective of how to get there, a bit more sdetail on coverage, etc.
[01:19:49] <Bytram> I'm now leaning to suggest that he submit it as a comment to the story we ran.
[01:20:27] <n1> that would be better
[01:20:43] <Bytram> I'm thinking so, too.
[01:21:11] <Bytram> I can just see some petty arguments coming up about late-submitted stories not getting posted, too.
[01:21:22] <n1> we can merge the story in subs, or lose it as not-display in the stories queue, to give him the karma and accepted submission for the valiant effort
[01:21:52] <Bytram> oooooh! I like where you're going with that one.
[01:22:09] <Bytram> hmmm, but if it is 'NOT DISPLAY', does he still get the karma?
[01:22:22] <n1> dont know about that
[01:22:25] <n1> it might just stay pending forever
[01:22:33] <n1> dont know when the karma gets given
[01:22:42] <Bytram> we could always run it, give him the karma, and then UN-DISPLAY it.
[01:23:13] <n1> dont think thats a good idea
[01:23:20] <Bytram> My thoughts are, from a programming perspecitve, it would make sense that when a story gets put onto the main page, that is when it is examine for authors and the karma is awarded.
[01:23:34] <n1> dont want people to see a story then see it disappear
[01:23:53] <Bytram> so, until such time that it actually gets displayed on the main page, no points are given... at least that's my working theory at this point
[01:24:13] <Bytram> hmmm, lemme check something quick
[01:24:35] <n1> merging and deleting seems to work
[01:25:04] <Bytram> Huh! Really? And it does not even have to get posted to the main page?
[01:25:22] <Bytram> Current karma for him/her is 45
[01:25:36] <n1> i just did it twice on dev
[01:25:42] <Bytram> kewel!
[01:25:47] <n1> didn't check my karma the first time
[01:25:51] <Bytram> lol
[01:25:52] <n1> but it went from 45 to 48 the second time
[01:25:58] <Bytram> great!
[01:26:04] <Bytram> would you like to do the honors?
[01:26:07] <n1> yup
[01:26:13] <Bytram> muchos gracias!
[01:29:05] <n1> it is done
[01:29:57] <Bytram> danke schon
[01:30:02] <Bytram> merci
[01:30:06] <Bytram> n1++
[01:30:06] <Bender> karma - n1: 13
[01:30:07] <Bytram> n1++
[01:30:07] <Bender> karma - n1: 14
[01:30:18] * Bytram didn't want to leave you at 13 -- scary! LOL
[01:30:27] <Bytram> thanks for the input!!!!!!!!!!!
[01:30:52] <n1> np
[01:31:02] <n1> when i saw the submission, i thought we'd already run it
[01:31:10] <n1> but on a glance at the stories queue i didnt see it at first
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[11:37:08] CoolHand|away is now known as CoolHand
[12:47:29] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #editorial
[12:47:29] -!- mode/#editorial [+v janrinok] by SkyNet
[13:17:56] <CoolHand> hey janrinok
[13:33:09] <janrinok> hi CoolHand - sry I was just helping my wife
[14:00:39] <CoolHand> no problem..
[14:00:59] <janrinok> you had a good weekend?
[14:01:17] <CoolHand> yeah.. all good.. nice and relaxing..
[14:01:50] <janrinok> any news from LamX?
[14:01:57] <CoolHand> nope... I was wondering about that..
[14:02:25] <janrinok> he's been away all weekend, so he's probably not had time to do much yet
[14:02:39] <CoolHand> yeah... that's cool.. just wanted to make sure I didn't need to do anything else
[14:03:12] <janrinok> just a quick question - did you change the dept content on the story you submitted? :)
[14:03:42] <CoolHand> the black hole story?
[14:03:49] <janrinok> yep
[14:03:54] <CoolHand> I haven't... I can
[14:04:32] <janrinok> no - he's already seen it I assume. Shouldn't be a major problem though, you might get a bit of a mocking...
[14:04:45] <CoolHand> well, I can handle that :)
[14:05:07] <janrinok> were you on this site at the very beginning?
[14:05:35] <CoolHand> yea
[14:05:49] <janrinok> http://soylentnews.org - this was my first mocking
[14:05:50] <NetCraft> ^ 03SoylentNews | Janrinok - FOR TRAINING ONLY - do not release!
[14:06:22] <CoolHand> I had a really low uid to start, then they got reset one weekend when I was away, and I ended up with a higher one (438).. I was so disappointed.. hehe
[14:06:38] <janrinok> lol
[14:08:53] <janrinok> any idea why your ID was changed?
[14:09:27] <janrinok> and how low was the previous one?
[14:11:20] <CoolHand> I'm pretty sure everones was.. everything was in development and flux, and they got 'reset' during one of the server moves or something b4 golive if I recall correctly. anyway, I was on a long weekend trip with the wife, and it happened like the day we left, and I didn't check the internet all weekend... so I went from something under 50 to 438... oh, well... someday when we have a million users, it won't be much difference.. :)
[14:13:22] <janrinok> ah, b4 golive - yes, I remember a few resets - and the subsequent scrabbles to grab 'iconic' IDs
[14:13:41] <CoolHand> heh, yeah, that was it
[14:14:38] <janrinok> I was still trying to join the staff - I was one of the 'supporters' on IRC and trying to discover a role for myself in the team.
[14:15:51] <janrinok> do you want to chat about editor niff-naff, or have you got enough to keep yourself busy?
[14:16:20] <CoolHand> I CAN chat about it..
[14:16:28] <janrinok> do you want to
[14:16:31] <janrinok> ?^
[14:17:49] <CoolHand> ummm... I don't have anything pressing to talk about regarding it, of which I'm aware... but then again, I'm not 100% certain of the definition of niff-naff... :)
[14:18:17] <janrinok> well such things as story timings and spacings in the queue, preferred html etc
[14:19:05] <CoolHand> timings... usually an hour or so during weekdays and 2 hours on w/e's as a general rule of thumb?
[14:19:51] <CoolHand> (weekends and night time - night for most of our audience anyway)
[14:19:56] <janrinok> well, originally it depended on the number of stories in the sub list. 20+ - 1 story an hour, 10-20 - every 90 mins, -10 - every 2-3 hours
[14:20:09] <CoolHand> ok..
[14:20:47] <janrinok> we've changed that as you have noted, but only because we haven't had enough subs and the shortage of editors in certain tz
[14:21:25] <CoolHand> so ideally, it's still based on subs
[14:21:40] <janrinok> and over the last 4 days, we have been trying to keep the subs list looking as empty as possible, and queuing stories a day or two ahead
[14:21:56] <janrinok> an empty sub list attracts more submissions
[14:22:05] <CoolHand> yeah, I could see that
[14:22:59] <janrinok> we've got a handful of stories in there currently which we wouldn't bother with if we had the choice, but we'll keep until either we all throw up our hands a pass it over, or something better arrives
[14:23:55] <janrinok> with elections looming in both the US and the UK, we get a fair handful of subs that are purely politics, and we try not to use them at all if we can.
[14:24:40] <janrinok> the problem with the trial method, is that we have to be prepared to insert a timely story into the queue and move others to fit around it
[14:24:55] <CoolHand> that story on Putin - it's kind of outdated already isn't it? (I think I saw he was seen this morning.. of course, that doesn't mean that all the talking points are invalid, but still..
[14:25:54] <janrinok> I tagged it as rubbish, but others have elected to keep it for a day or two. There is also a snipe at a Republican politician not knowing his capital cities, but that shouldn't belong on a site like this
[14:26:23] <CoolHand> yeah
[14:26:34] <janrinok> if there was something significant happening to Putin, I think that there would have been other more significant clues by now.
[14:26:46] <janrinok> if he has a child - so what?
[14:27:39] <CoolHand> yeah
[14:28:47] <janrinok> the other thing that we have to be aware of is making sure that we vary both the topics covered and the submitters. We try not to have too many stories by any submitter on a given day - and too many can be more than one for some submitters :)
[14:29:08] <CoolHand> from quick glances, I'd put human germ line, opensourc/SJW, Asteroid detection stories next out of those I think...
[14:29:10] <janrinok> it's not always easy to do, and sometimes it is not even possible
[14:29:40] <CoolHand> I see that, but I think it should be quality 1st over "varied"..
[14:30:12] <CoolHand> if equal quality, then vary..
[14:30:18] <CoolHand> just MHO
[14:30:56] <janrinok> I'm not too keen, personally, on the opensource/SJW story. It's linked to mikeeUSA, a well known troll and advocate of underage sex/rape. Looking at the links, that is the true reason that his software was not accepted, well that and the fact that it was considered to be a poor quality ripoff
[14:31:15] <janrinok> agree on your point
[14:31:53] <janrinok> but I try to leave the submitter out of the equation when looking at a story content and I ask myself, is there anything here to discuss.
[14:32:00] <CoolHand> janrinok: gotcha... like I said I just did quick glances.. (and I need to learn more about submitters :) )
[14:32:44] <CoolHand> but knowing submitters helps let you know how much more you should investigate..
[14:33:02] <CoolHand> a lot of this stuff I haven't really ever thought about as a reader, so this will be the tough part
[14:33:15] <janrinok> MikeeUSA has various aliases, but I haven't seen him on here for a few months under any of them. I might just have a clue to the name he is now using but I'm keeping quiet until I can say with some certainty one way or another.
[14:34:45] <janrinok> And just because someone has a particular political leaning or other bias doesn't mean that they cannot pose questions that are worth a discussion by the community. They can be hard stories to edit though
[14:35:04] <CoolHand> yeah.. I agree with both those points :)
[14:36:13] <CoolHand> hey!
[14:36:26] <CoolHand> you're dept name on gene transfer is as bad as my black hole one!
[14:36:26] <janrinok> some stories - if you have a good day - can be edited in 10-15 minutes. Others, either those with a bias as mentioned or one where we get a URL and a title, can take up to an hour to prepare. You have to make the call on whether it is worth your effort to do it now, later, or simply pass on it
[14:36:35] <CoolHand> "the I-know-how-to-transfer-genes-horizontally "
[14:36:42] <CoolHand> haha!
[14:36:43] <janrinok> I haven't given it a dept...
[14:37:17] <CoolHand> posted by janrinok on Monday March 16, @08:14AM Printer-friendly
[14:37:19] <CoolHand> from the I-know-how-to-transfer-genes-horizontally dept.
[14:37:43] <janrinok> ah, I see. Some submitters help by making their own dept suggestions. gewg_ and anontechie are 2 such submitters
[14:38:27] <janrinok> oh, sorry I was looking at the one in the subs list - which must be a dupe as it is already in the stories list.
[14:38:28] <CoolHand> yeah, I will need to make sure I spend that time thoroughly investigating everything on the stories..
[14:39:19] <CoolHand> I definitely have a tendency to be a trusting type person - always thinking good of everyone. I'll need to work on being suspicious of everything I think
[14:40:22] <janrinok> after a while you can 'feel' when something is right or when you need to take extra care. Still do the checks, of course, but you can tell that the submitter is trying to be honest about things.
[14:41:37] <janrinok> that's another problem about the 'trial' editing method - I edited that story about HGT over 48 hours ago, and had forgotten about it until it comes up on the front page.... Must remember to stay on the ball.
[14:43:02] <janrinok> I don't know how you configure your browser for editing but I use 3 tabs. Front page, stories list, and submissions list. I open each edit in a new tab so that I always have a reference to all the info we need.
[14:43:59] <janrinok> I also keep IRC open when editing or when simply on my computer. If the site goes down, we all end up on IRC and the eds try to take the community's questions and leave the sys/dev guys to fix the site.
[14:44:10] <CoolHand> well, don't really have a "method" yet, but was thinking something similar.. unless I'm on my "main" pc at home which has an ultrawide monitor, in which case I might use windows side-by-side
[14:44:30] <janrinok> I envy you that...
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[14:45:01] <CoolHand> yeah, I always have irc online, and use a "pop-down" console window for it so it's always available.. I have some other irc channels besides soylent I'm always on..
[14:45:33] <janrinok> I have 2 displays. One is one the site and the other is on IRC. I use whichever else I fancy for doing my own work or whatever.
[14:46:24] <CoolHand> i use yakuake with tmux.. it looks something like this: https://www.google.com
[14:46:25] <NetCraft> ^ 03yakuake - Google Search
[14:46:31] <CoolHand> holy yikes
[14:46:32] <CoolHand> sorry
[14:46:38] <CoolHand> didn't realize the url was that ugly
[14:47:54] <janrinok> true, it's not the prettiest URl that I have seen today.....
[14:49:18] <CoolHand> so... I saw something in some article's comments from n1 I think that said "online editors" should help alleviate issues with mod-bombers and other moderation issues like that, since we don't have meta-mod'ing.. I haven't seen any training on that.. is that really an editor's job, or is it just something for which n1 and a few others wear an additional hat?
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[14:50:54] <janrinok> well, it's any staff really. It is still relatively new for all of us, but once on the main site you will see much more than the average user can. I won't go into detail on this channel for the moment. But we can see who is abusing the mod system and who is being abused.
[14:52:35] <janrinok> We also have the ability to undo unfair modding after a short investigation, but to be honest I've not had much to do with this yet. There is some trial software but the sys/dev guys see the output better than I do. I would have to set up another window to watch for mod alerts.
[14:53:00] <CoolHand> ok.. I won't worry about that part yet then.. :)
[14:53:36] <janrinok> If you get through the first few days without a spolling mistoke then you will be doing well. The community tend to let you know when you have made one!
[14:54:17] <CoolHand> lol, I bet! :)
[14:54:44] <janrinok> they are usually subdued in this regard, perhaps a polite interjection or something... ;)
[14:54:45] <CoolHand> spelling is one thing at which I normally excel.. typos, of course, can still be an issue.. :)
[14:55:58] <janrinok> remember that if the original story is in US English then all the summary should match US English spelling, and the same for UK English of course. Some of the community can sometimes miss that finer point
[14:56:50] <janrinok> for the Australians, we let them colour it in with blunt crayons.... (!)
[14:58:16] * janrinok is sure that he will die for that one - someone will have seen..#
[14:59:15] <CoolHand> yeah, well, I can't attest to the accuracy of my "UK English" spelling, but I'll do my best :)
[15:00:01] <janrinok> I'm just trying to think what else I should mention?
[15:01:07] <CoolHand> do we maintain a shared document of potential abusers for submissions (and their styles to watch for pseudonyms)? I know you said you don't like to base publication on a user, but it can still be a red flag to closely examine/edit before pub...
[15:01:32] <janrinok> no, but you will learn them very quickly
[15:02:20] <janrinok> I tend to pay particular attention to subs from ACs and from very recent user IDs
[15:02:47] <CoolHand> yea, definitely those :)
[15:03:51] <janrinok> Once you are on the main site you will be able to chat about sensitive issues elsewhere. The sys/devs have a good feel for some of the bad guys, but I tend to just get to know the names and IDs
[15:04:18] <CoolHand> alrighty..
[15:04:46] <janrinok> You will also have a lot more information at your fingertips which isn't reproduced on dev
[15:06:08] <CoolHand> thats cool
[15:06:33] <CoolHand> sounds like that will help with some of those issues
[15:06:34] <janrinok> Actually, as a new editor (imminently I guess), you will be well placed to make suggestions on how to improve what we have, be it system, procedural or just good ideas. Don't keep it all to yourself
[15:06:50] <CoolHand> I'll try :)
[15:07:48] <janrinok> we tend to just accept a lot of it because that is what we are now used to. You have seen the story editing page - I don't think anyone would write that if they were starting afresh today.
[15:08:03] <CoolHand> I frequently have process improvement ideas with new teams. However, the really good ones sometimes take a while to percolate until I fully grok the existing process...
[15:09:08] <janrinok> true but bring them up on here and we can either support you or tell you where it might not work. Of course, the devs are limited but they achieve a huge amount of stuff considering there are only 3 active at the moment.
[15:09:51] <janrinok> the move to Rehash should bring some improvements but no doubt it will also throw up some bugs too
[15:10:59] <n1> afternoon janrinok, CoolHand
[15:11:24] <janrinok> nick hi
[15:12:40] <CoolHand> good morning n1
[15:12:56] -!- Phoenix666 [Phoenix666!~Phoenix66@qbdb-64-293-838-329.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #editorial
[15:13:13] <n1> hi Phoenix666
[15:13:31] <Phoenix666> hi guys, i'm trying to get some editing practice in. "Preview" button's not working though.
[15:13:46] <n1> how do you mean 'not working'?
[15:14:03] <n1> i'm logging onto dev now
[15:14:09] <Phoenix666> the page doesn't refresh and i got a 503 error a couple times
[15:14:33] <n1> hmmm
[15:14:35] <n1> you are right
[15:14:42] <n1> thats a new one
[15:14:44] <janrinok> Phoenix666: I've had that internal server error, but the preview button problem not seen here
[15:14:53] <n1> janrinok, prod is fine i think
[15:14:59] <n1> it's dev thats got the issue
[15:15:25] <Phoenix666> i'm on firefox 30.0 on ubuntu 13.10
[15:15:37] <n1> Phoenix666, it seems to be an issue as it's doing the same for me
[15:15:42] <janrinok> I'm on dev - and I've now got the same preview error!
[15:16:22] <CoolHand> works for me..
[15:16:36] <Phoenix666> anything in the logs?
[15:16:47] <n1> the devs are looking at it now
[15:16:52] <Phoenix666> k, i'll sit tight
[15:18:00] <janrinok> now, what was I just saying about Rehash....?
[15:18:13] <n1> heh
[15:18:25] <CoolHand> janrinok>| the move to Rehash should bring some improvements but no doubt it will also throw up some bugs to
[15:18:36] <CoolHand> :)
[15:18:37] <janrinok> lol
[15:21:20] <n1> typical for it to happen when trying to get you folks up to speed
[15:22:07] <janrinok> well, to be honest, how often do I look at dev when we are not training someone? Not as much as I should, obviously
[15:22:51] <n1> i basically dont look at dev unless something happens here which encourages me to
[15:23:04] <janrinok> seem like the devs are pleased that it is a js proble :)
[15:23:08] <janrinok> problem*
[15:23:15] <n1> tmb's reaction amused me
[15:24:28] <janrinok> your pun about 'sounds reasonable' to his brake noise needing working on....
[15:24:52] <janrinok> needs working on*
[15:25:05] <n1> bad puns are good
[15:33:20] <n1> CoolHand
[15:34:06] <CoolHand> n1
[15:34:26] <n1> see private message
[15:52:42] <n1> how are you doing today, janrinok?
[15:56:44] <janrinok> I'm OK thanks
[15:56:51] <janrinok> yourself?
[15:57:19] <n1> really cant complain, things are slowly falling into place
[15:57:37] <janrinok> you've got your meeting tomorrow?
[15:58:04] <n1> yeah, meeting tomorrow regarding several contracts, got the go ahead now for the project i was supposed to start last week
[15:58:19] <n1> and am now waiting on a time for a meeting regarding some of the festival stuff
[15:58:48] <janrinok> you're right - that's sounding quite good. Hope it all works out for you
[15:59:42] <n1> thanks :)
[15:59:49] <n1> one day all this will have to pay off surely lol
[16:00:13] <janrinok> let's hope it's sooner rather than later!
[16:02:16] <n1> quite right, it's been slow progress with this shit, but it does feel like things are really going the right direction at the moment
[16:02:36] <n1> but i guess it was always going to be that way
[16:03:07] <janrinok> it'll happen
[16:04:24] <n1> it's what i get for going self-employed during a painfully slow 'economic recovery'
[16:06:46] <janrinok> hey, nobody could see it coming until it was too late
[16:14:18] <Phoenix666> "mistakes were made"
[16:14:53] <n1> it was really helpful the solution to that crisis
[16:15:01] <n1> was to do more of what we were doing before it
[16:15:23] <Phoenix666> we need to look to the future, not dwell on the past
[16:16:08] <n1> heh
[16:26:04] <n1> seems like yesterdays update has caused some problems :(
[16:30:51] <janrinok> yep
[16:31:07] <janrinok> and TMB about to start his big journey
[16:31:22] <n1> yeah i figured
[16:35:30] <janrinok> I've tagged an AC submission with a warning that MikeeUSA is linked to the story. Treat the story with caution. The AC submitter is a first time address, so it could be MikeeUSA himself (again!)
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[16:35:57] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Subsentient] by SkyNet
[16:36:04] <janrinok> hi Subsentient `
[16:36:12] <Subsentient> janrinok: hi
[16:36:16] <janrinok> you good?
[16:36:54] <Subsentient> janrinok: Yeah, just woke up like 12 seconds ago
[16:37:11] <janrinok> well, take it easy, have a coffee and welcome to today!
[16:37:15] <Subsentient> Noticed NEXUS had crashed and restarted it
[16:37:22] <Subsentient> both of them T_T
[16:37:47] <janrinok> we have a number of bugs on the site since yesterday's update - it might be related.
[16:43:40] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[16:44:23] <n1> i vote to reject that AC submission
[16:58:05] <n1> janrinok|afk, did you see the AC sub is a dupe of the other AC sub you noted?
[18:57:47] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[19:00:31] <n1> wb janrinok
[19:01:12] <janrinok> I've delete them both thx. I wondering if there is a link between JerimiahCornelius and MikeeUSA?
[19:01:50] <janrinok> and can I help with the current problems. Other than the preview button, I've not seen any other probs. Linux with FF here
[19:03:02] <n1> go viewing stories, just work down the main page and see if comments load on each one
[19:03:08] <n1> it seems to happen completely randomly when they dont
[19:04:00] <janrinok> k
[19:19:00] <janrinok> n1: I've only been able to reproduce it (and only then partially) when trying to view a story after commenting or moderating. What percentage approx of failures are you seeing?
[20:47:48] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]
[20:50:26] <paulej72> the js scripts for dev are mia I believe
[21:30:11] <paulej72> dev is fixed. there were some missing autogenerated js and css files. The topic_popup_static.pl task creates them. I just ran it statically.
[21:31:20] <n1> paulej72++
[21:31:20] <Bender> karma - paulej72: 8
[22:40:46] <mrcoolbp> did I miss the fun today?
[22:53:51] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand, Phoenix666: hello there
[23:17:14] <n1> nothing fun happening today
[23:28:30] <Phoenix666> hi mrcoolbp
[23:28:38] <mrcoolbp> hiya
[23:29:00] <Phoenix666> i pivoted to submissions today instead of editorial practice. good to go now?
[23:31:54] <mrcoolbp> I think so, seemed to be working when I looked a bit ago
[23:32:05] <mrcoolbp> the devs are hacking away at some other stuff right now
[23:33:23] <Phoenix666> alright, i'll proceed
[23:39:20] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: I'll be back in an hour or so
[23:39:31] <Phoenix666> no worries!