#editorial | Logs for 2015-03-13

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[00:21:06] -!- Phoenix666 [Phoenix666!~Phoenix66@qbdb-64-293-838-329.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #editorial
[00:22:39] <Phoenix666> hi guys, I just saw janrinok's "Calling all editors" post from earlier. I haven't edited before, but I have spare cycles and am willing to help
[00:24:05] <nick> hi Phoenix666
[00:24:12] <Phoenix666> is there a time/way to show me and other volunteers responding to that the ropes?
[00:25:00] <nick> yeah there is indeed
[00:25:32] <nick> dont have a time yet, but if you can loiter around here we will work something out asap
[00:25:50] <nick> same username on the site?
[00:26:12] <Phoenix666> great. i thought it would be best to do a side-by-side, as it were, and then put us on the graveyard shift so we don't mess anything up too badly
[00:26:15] <Phoenix666> yes, the same
[00:26:50] <nick> janrinok is the best person to give you an introduction
[00:27:02] <nick> but if you look in the topic of this channel, there are some links
[00:27:27] <nick> which will give you an overview of how we work
[00:27:39] <Phoenix666> got it--i'll start there. what's janrinok's shift so i can go to him with questions?
[00:28:15] <nick> what time zone are you in?
[00:28:22] <Phoenix666> EST -- NYC
[00:29:52] <nick> hmmm, might be tricky unless you have time in the morning?
[00:30:47] <nick> we dont work shifts as such, unless we know some/one of us isn't going to be around
[00:30:48] <Phoenix666> i have to block out 7-9am EST to get the kids to school, but can do either earlier or later
[00:31:35] <Phoenix666> got it. I'll keep the chat client open, then. do you have a sense for times/days he's typically around?
[00:31:37] <nick> if you can hang around in here when you are available tomorrow morning, he should be here at some point
[00:31:55] <Phoenix666> great, i'll do that. i'll get out of your hair and tackle the wikis. thanks!
[00:31:56] <nick> he is here most days
[00:32:49] <nick> if you have any questions or anything dont hesitate to ask
[00:33:23] <nick> it's nice to have someone interested!
[00:34:34] <Phoenix666> i have been working on site features, and didn't realize editors needed help. thanks to you guys for the call-out
[00:36:45] <nick> we try not to complain but believe it or not, but over the yearish i've been doing this, it does get tiring and burning out feels possibe
[00:36:53] <nick> -but
[00:38:53] <Phoenix666> it is very possible when it's a lot of work and people complain
[00:39:46] <Phoenix666> so it's good to ask for help instead of suddenly imploding
[00:40:01] <nick> sometimes it's hard to take a step back really, a year ago we were just frustrated with the old site
[00:40:16] <Phoenix666> absolutely.
[00:41:29] <nick> it is generally a very positive experience
[00:41:40] <nick> but i want to keep it that way
[00:41:47] <nick> and janrinok does too
[00:42:13] <Phoenix666> i think SN's making a lot of positive progress.
[00:42:25] <Phoenix666> you guys have been doing a great job
[00:42:55] <nick> thanks, a lot of people have put some real work into this site
[00:43:04] <nick> i feel proud to be a part of it
[00:43:05] <Phoenix666> i'm encouraged that you weren't just trying to recapture the glory days of slashdot, but to innovate on that
[00:43:09] <nick> what we are and what we're trying to do
[00:44:02] <nick> slashdot could have been more than it was, that's what we're trying to do i think
[00:44:19] <Phoenix666> exactly--i know it's a social good and that it's valuable in and of itself
[00:44:41] <Phoenix666> but it's more than that, over the years i've been active in grassroots projects of all sorts
[00:44:56] <Phoenix666> i've seen very bad structures, and some ok ones
[00:45:08] <Phoenix666> but the slashdot moderation system always stood out
[00:45:17] <Phoenix666> as a great way to improve the signal-to-noise ratio
[00:45:27] <Phoenix666> and SN's making it even better
[00:45:41] <Phoenix666> still, i think to help avoid burnout
[00:45:44] <nick> moderation and submissions are the core of the experience
[00:46:15] <nick> because we dont go out trying to get views, people submit what they find interesting
[00:46:38] <Phoenix666> it might be good to think of other ways to make it more rewarding for the people putting in the work
[00:46:44] <Phoenix666> and i don't mean money
[00:47:15] <Phoenix666> even if it's just setting it up such that the rest of us can buy you beers if you're in town or lend you a car or something
[00:48:32] <nick> if that happens, there's a lot of beers i owe janrinok
[00:52:48] <nick> it's a difficult situation, we are a community, but to keep it that way we are officially a 'public benefit corporation' which makes community activity like that a little more complicated if we want to keep our integrity.
[00:56:01] <nick> good comments and high quality original submissions make it worthwhile for me. i'm not going to turn down beer, but contributing positively, to make the site a success is the best thing everyone can do.
[01:01:57] <Phoenix666> (apologies, wifus interruptus)
[01:02:39] <Phoenix666> it's very prescient that SN was incorporated as a public benefit corporation--it codifies what it can and can't do, and it can't become another Dice acquisition
[01:03:15] <Phoenix666> and satisfaction and karma are fine as far as they go in terms of keeping contributors stoked
[01:03:31] <Phoenix666> but there should be more to it than that, valuable, but non-monetary
[01:03:57] <Phoenix666> something along the lines of contributing to open source projects as a way to learn and burnish your professinal cred
[01:04:01] <Phoenix666> professional
[01:06:06] <nick> well there's nothing to stop that really, if someone on the staff wanted to use their contributions here as part of their professional experience
[01:06:31] <nick> people writing comments and journals can contribute just as much really though, if you can show your work, or get a reference for it
[01:07:57] <nick> i'm sure no one on the staff or board would object to the board/sn pbc writing a professional reference for the dev team (paulej72 and themightybuzzard)
[01:08:02] <nick> if they wanted it
[01:08:19] <Phoenix666> that is true but that's always been true of everything. i want to say it would be more valuable/meaningful if it meant something like college credit
[01:08:33] <Phoenix666> or karma in the sense SN and /. mean it
[01:08:58] <Phoenix666> i shy away from calling it "gamification," because that concept has become a bit trite
[01:08:59] <nick> well, that potential will grow with the sites credibility i would think
[01:09:09] <Phoenix666> (perhaps because nobody's done it right yet)
[01:09:21] <Phoenix666> but that's the sort of direction i mean
[01:09:54] <nick> i don't disagree
[01:10:21] <nick> as a general example at why making decisions on a project like this is very difficult for everyone
[01:10:22] <nick> https://soylentnews.org
[01:10:23] <NetCraft> ^ 03SN comment by drgibbon (74)
[01:10:51] <nick> that comment thread, 3 +5 insightful comments, all deserving of the moderation, but not all concepts can work on the same site
[01:12:09] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #editorial
[01:12:09] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Bytram|away] by SkyNet
[01:12:48] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[01:13:01] <Phoenix666> yes, it's the dilemma with groups of intelligent people with different notions
[01:13:17] <nick> but it's all Bytram's fault
[01:13:20] <Phoenix666> haha
[01:13:31] <nick> thats your first lesson
[01:14:13] <Phoenix666> but it's important to recognize the difference between people spitballing and having real differences of opinion based on logical reasoning
[01:14:52] <nick> quite right, but we do have to listen first
[01:14:59] <Phoenix666> and also to recognize that most people, even intelligent and motivated ones, are most likely be happy to be along for the ride instead of carving out time to do something about it
[01:15:12] <Phoenix666> sure
[01:15:54] <nick> some people have spent a lot more energy complaining about how inconvinient it is to subscribe, than the effort it would have taken them to
[01:17:04] <Phoenix666> yes--i live in new york city and know that phenomenon well. much easier to complain about how the fire department hasn't shown up to put the guy on fire out instead of picking up a pail of water and dousing him yourself
[01:18:59] <nick> you may have seen, if someone calls me out on an editing decision i am more than happy to defend myself or admit i've made a mistake. you can get out what you put in with this site.
[01:20:09] <Phoenix666> i think that's a strength of SN's approach. i've been a consultant in this town for years to Fortune 500 outfits and have been saying to them they should do what you guys are doing here
[01:20:22] <nick> there is no other 'news' site that works the way we do, there is no influence but the community itself
[01:20:33] <Phoenix666> but no one ever does. instead they're so afraid they refer everything to the legal dept or their PR firm
[01:21:32] <nick> trust is important
[01:21:43] <nick> and the city gives you so many lessons not to, in my opinion
[01:22:00] <Phoenix666> yes, it's all-important. it's why corporations engender none--they're fake
[01:22:39] <Phoenix666> well, i grew up in rural Montana
[01:22:44] <Phoenix666> and live here now
[01:22:51] <nick> thats a big shift
[01:23:29] <Phoenix666> well, by way of Chicago, Japan, China, Germany, and other places---you could say i misheard them when they said, "go west, young man!"
[01:23:53] <Phoenix666> but i would say there are complexities and layers to both environments when it comes to trust
[01:24:09] <nick> :)
[01:24:31] <Phoenix666> a friend of mine from high school turned into the biggest meth dealer in that region
[01:24:45] <Phoenix666> nobody knew
[01:24:53] <Phoenix666> until the FBI arrested him
[01:25:23] <Phoenix666> here in NYC i've had complete strangers give me the shirt off their back
[01:25:47] <Phoenix666> complexities
[01:26:03] <nick> travel in the right context makes you/me/everyone see things differently
[01:26:12] <Phoenix666> exactly
[01:26:28] <nick> expectations are very different and trust works in different ways
[01:27:16] <nick> did you choose nyc?
[01:27:17] <Phoenix666> yes--i've come to believe that in the end civilization works because all those differences usually mesh
[01:27:25] <Phoenix666> yes, i did
[01:27:32] <Phoenix666> fled Chicago, actually
[01:28:02] <nick> always liked the place?
[01:28:44] <Phoenix666> new york, yes, chicago, no. it's been documented that a great chemistry exists between NY'ers and Montanans. the new york times did a three part article on it once
[01:29:21] <Phoenix666> about 12 years ago or so
[01:29:41] <nick> i have been to nyc and i would go again
[01:30:01] <Phoenix666> the DNC was held in NY, and the NYT reporter was fascinated at how the brash, obnoxious NY'ers became kind and magnanimous when approached by the delegates from MT
[01:30:01] <nick> but have lived most of my life in london,uk with interludes in other corners.
[01:30:13] <nick> corners of the world
[01:30:27] <Phoenix666> HK, or other commonwealth?
[01:30:49] <nick> au and caribbean commonwealth
[01:31:06] <Phoenix666> that's such a sweet deal they have in the commonwealth
[01:31:15] <Phoenix666> i met a lot of guys in japan doing that
[01:31:41] <Phoenix666> they were taking a few years off before or after college to travel the world and work
[01:31:54] <nick> japan is still on the list, went to hk instead because of money at the time
[01:31:58] <nick> but that was a great experience too
[01:32:22] <nick> the canadian/australians get the best deal
[01:32:25] <nick> from what i know
[01:32:51] <nick> they travel the commonwealth the easiest
[01:32:52] <Phoenix666> yeah, because in the former everyone loves you and in the latter they love you if you're not in bali
[01:33:10] <nick> but UK is pretty got for visa situations generally
[01:33:29] <Phoenix666> i had a friend in germany who was half swiss, half canadian. borders did not exist for him
[01:33:36] <nick> hah
[01:33:39] <Phoenix666> nobody hassled him
[01:34:16] <nick> i have ever had any problems
[01:34:23] <nick> never*
[01:34:33] <nick> only us immigration asks a million questions
[01:34:45] <Phoenix666> man, thank your stars you're not american on that score
[01:35:04] <Phoenix666> all i can say is, i reflexively tell people i'm canadian when abroad
[01:35:45] <Phoenix666> (little known fact: in china they loooove canadians because Mao's personal doctor with him on the long march was canadian)
[01:36:04] <nick> did not know that
[01:36:13] <Phoenix666> also, the most famous comedian in the country there is canadian
[01:36:18] <nick> i don't brag i'm from the uk or anything, days of empire and all
[01:37:05] <nick> not sure ive ever seen chinese comedy
[01:37:38] <Phoenix666> no, it's a daily radio play they put on with two "peasants" who say wise/funny things. think laurel & hardy or something like that
[01:38:03] <Phoenix666> my chinese roommate in beijing would piss himself listening to it
[01:39:38] <nick> sounds fun
[01:40:43] <Phoenix666> my mandarin was never good enough to get the humor myself, but it was entertaining watching someone else listen to it. don't think i ever saw any chinese laugh so hard and genuinely about anything else
[01:40:50] <nick> how long did you stay in china for?
[01:41:12] <Phoenix666> 1 yr. i was on a mandarin immersion program in grad school, in beijing and harbin (manchuria)
[01:41:24] <nick> i've only see beijing, but i'd love to see more... don't think could figure out the language though :(
[01:42:12] <Phoenix666> tones are hard to get an ear for, but the grammar is simple and the characters make a lot more sense in chinese than japanese. in chinese it works like a big, big alphabet
[01:42:21] <nick> sounds like a very effective immersion program heh
[01:43:06] <Phoenix666> well, you get into the rhythm of it there, but after you come back it goes away quickly because it's not natural to an Indo-European speaker
[01:43:44] <Phoenix666> just like you get into the rhythm of declensions in german, but quickly forget when you go back to english
[01:43:50] <nick> it's something holding me back, not knowing a second language
[01:44:24] <Phoenix666> the best i ever found was pimsleur courses
[01:44:34] <Phoenix666> they're purely audio/verbal
[01:44:46] <Phoenix666> no written component, so you can listen to them in the car, at the gym, etc
[01:45:14] <Phoenix666> they start you with really simple vocabulary and then teach you to mix it up and use it in different ways until you really have it down
[01:46:16] <Phoenix666> it's really very effective. i got the turkish course before my wife and i went to istanbul for our honeymoon, and it enabled me to get us around
[01:47:02] <Bytram> might make it hard to read the signs, though?
[01:47:34] <Bytram> learning a foreign language, or any language for that matter, consists of four parts: Reading, Writing, Speaking, and Hearing.
[01:47:36] <Phoenix666> well turkish uses roman script, so once you learn the projunciation of the 2-3 of their funky letters it's all good
[01:48:03] <Bytram> German was very easy to go between reading and speaking as there's a one-to-one correspondence.
[01:48:29] <Bytram> listening (with different inflections and tonalities and cadences) was a bit more difficult for me than reading.
[01:48:30] <Phoenix666> true, and the uniform pronunciation helps
[01:48:45] <nick> reading is most important for me
[01:48:57] <Phoenix666> mandarin is actually very consistent, it's just you have to train your ear for the tones
[01:49:00] <nick> although spoken is obviously almost as much
[01:49:09] <Bytram> still, after 3 years' study in high school, I must have learned a thing or two as nearly 20 years later I was there on business and could carry on a converstaion weel enough
[01:49:12] <nick> g'day Bytram btw
[01:49:17] <Bytram> NCommander: gday!
[01:49:33] <Bytram> nick: and a good day to you!
[01:49:49] <nick> :D
[01:50:03] <Bytram> autocomlete was more like autocompete
[01:50:18] <Bytram> anyway, Ima procrastinating doing testing.
[01:50:30] <Bytram> too much interesting chit char going on in here!
[01:50:32] <nick> go back to breaking things
[01:50:44] <Phoenix666> sorry!
[01:51:21] <Phoenix666> i was envying nick his commonwealth passport and its ability to unlock doors around the world
[01:51:24] <Bytram> no apology necessary! well-written communications pull in the reader.
[01:51:49] <Phoenix666> god, what a youth i might have had with such a thing
[01:51:59] <Bytram> Phoenix666: you ever think of being an editor on SN?
[01:52:10] <nick> he came to offer his services!
[01:52:16] <nick> i nearly fell off my chair
[01:52:26] <Phoenix666> yeah, i actually came to volunteer after janrinok's bracing post earlier today
[01:52:38] <Bytram> Phoenix666++
[01:52:38] <Bender> karma - phoenix666: 1
[01:52:44] <Phoenix666> :)
[01:52:48] <nick> Phoenix666++
[01:52:48] <Bender> karma - phoenix666: 2
[01:52:49] <nick> indeed
[01:53:02] <Phoenix666> nick and i were discussing how to convert karma points into beer
[01:53:17] <nick> Bytram is dev and ed, so thats why he gets the blame for everything.
[01:53:29] <Phoenix666> (loans of cars, couches to crash on, etc)
[01:53:32] <Bytram> I found enough typos and stuff over time, I finally suggested on a couple occasions, 'ya know, it would a lot easier if you just let me do the editing myself instead of me telling you where the typos, etc. are'
[01:53:46] <Bytram> I now have well over 500 storiesposted to the site! =)
[01:53:52] <Phoenix666> wow
[01:53:52] <Bytram> s/spo/s po/
[01:54:13] <Bytram> see here: https://soylentnews.org
[01:54:13] <NetCraft> ^ 03SoylentNews: Authors
[01:55:05] <Phoenix666> now those are the user stats that matter. forget UID #
[01:55:13] <Bytram> and that's barely one *third* of what janrinok and laminatorx have posted.
[01:55:20] <Bytram> each.
[01:55:38] * nick tips hat to those guys
[01:55:39] <Phoenix666> and here i was feeling all pleased that i got back the 3-digit i had in the distant slashdot past
[01:56:15] * Bytram was gaining on n1 but he has since pulled ahead by a large margin.
[01:56:17] <Bytram> =)
[01:56:39] <nick> well, when janrinok asked me to join, i'd have thought by now maybe i'd have posted a couple hundred
[01:56:59] <nick> he tricked me
[01:57:13] <Phoenix666> yeah, so we're clear, i'm not competitive on that score--just happy to not damage community trust too badly with typos
[01:57:47] <nick> Phoenix666, the number isn't important, it's more being regular
[01:58:02] * Bytram tricked himself
[01:58:17] <Phoenix666> do you guys work relay style, passing the baton, or work in tandem?
[01:58:31] <nick> relay
[01:58:47] <Bytram> I'd pop in after I got home from work and evening activites and check the story queue... if it was low/empty, I'd just push through a bunch until we were convered until morning in Europe
[01:59:16] <Bytram> meant 5-6 stories would go out. I'd work on it from 10pm to 11 or 12.
[01:59:34] <nick> we've had a few editors who help for a couple months and then life takes over, which i do understand. Many of the staff has extended absences
[01:59:42] <nick> but sometimes they dont seem to come back!
[02:00:37] <Phoenix666> if you guys have a good handle on the time-zone conversions, what are the thin places i could cover from NYC?
[02:00:46] * Bytram thinks he was one of the people janrinok was referring to when he mentioned that they had other duties on the site.
[02:00:59] * nick thinks Bytram is right
[02:01:11] <Bytram> it varies
[02:01:35] <Phoenix666> I have two young kids i have to flog between 7-9am, 4-6pm EST, but have flexibility otherwise
[02:01:39] * Bytram just checked and atm we have stories queued until: 03/14 05:47 UTC
[02:01:40] <nick> i'm up late, but i shouldn't be editing at this hour!
[02:01:54] <Bytram> nick: what is it, about 2am for you?
[02:01:58] <nick> yeah
[02:02:24] <Bytram> go. to. bed.
[02:02:27] <nick> usually i do some stories around midnight my time
[02:02:38] <Bytram> fewer interruptions
[02:02:53] <nick> but laminatorx has been covering entirely for the last couple days
[02:02:59] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:03:01] <nick> so janrinok and i have had a little break
[02:03:28] <nick> he is very busy though, i feel bad about that
[02:03:39] <Bytram> Phoenix666: the editing itself is, well, editing. Typos, grammar, punctuation and layout conventions and the like.
[02:04:26] <Bytram> the UI to move the stories from the submission queue to the story queue is, well, 'obtuse' but quirkily funcitonal
[02:04:29] <Phoenix666> GUI interface through the site, or is it a cut-and-paste from email deal?
[02:04:39] <Bytram> GUI
[02:04:46] <Bytram> but, heavily text oriented
[02:05:01] <Bytram> remember, the site still functions quite well with a text-based web browser.
[02:05:13] <Bytram> otoh, to edit stories, requires javascript be enabled
[02:05:16] <nick> i mostly focus on sources, typos, layout
[02:05:26] <Phoenix666> that's awesome. i did read slashdot with lynx back in the day
[02:05:53] <Phoenix666> ok, that sounds manageable
[02:05:59] <nick> can you make comments text based?
[02:06:12] <Phoenix666> yes
[02:06:30] <Bytram> afk biab
[02:06:52] <nick> if i was american, i wouldn't have graduated highschool technically, so i dont claim my english is perfect
[02:06:56] <nick> take care Bytram
[02:07:37] <Phoenix666> Bytram in Australia?
[02:08:02] <nick> he's somewhere in the usa, not sure where
[02:09:00] <Phoenix666> well, i need to turn into a pumpkin myself. my 4-yr old will be kicking me awake in 6 hours
[02:09:19] <Phoenix666> don't know where he inherited early riser genes, but not from me
[02:09:36] <nick> sleep sounds reasonable about now
[02:09:56] <Phoenix666> i'm going to read the wikis and loop back manana. great talking to you nick!
[02:10:02] <nick> good to speak to you, welcome to #editorial!
[02:10:13] <Phoenix666> thanks!
[02:10:20] -!- Phoenix666 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[02:11:49] <Bytram> paulej72: I'm in the usa - northeast
[02:11:56] -!- LaminatorX [LaminatorX!~4751937c@Soylent/Staff/Editor/LaminatorX] has joined #editorial
[02:11:56] -!- mode/#editorial [+v LaminatorX] by SkyNet
[02:11:58] <Bytram> argh!
[02:12:18] <Bytram> that was supposed to go phoenix666@
[02:12:33] <paulej72> yeah right :)
[02:12:35] <Bytram> LaminatorX: hola! you been *busy* latelt!
[02:12:35] <LaminatorX> Good?
[02:12:48] <Bytram> s/lt/ly/
[02:12:59] * Bytram needs less tired fingers
[02:13:00] <LaminatorX> I decided to step up and give the lads a break.
[02:13:02] <nick> hi LaminatorX
[02:13:08] <nick> thanks for that man
[02:13:10] <LaminatorX> Let them proofread my posts for achange.
[02:13:13] <Bytram> LOL!
[02:13:15] <nick> really appreciated
[02:13:33] <nick> janrinok said you've been very busy
[02:14:02] <LaminatorX> Go team. Sorry I've been scarce. I finally got a better job and they expect me to work in the mornings instead of chatting with you guys.
[02:14:13] <Bytram> shame on them!
[02:14:14] <nick> bastards
[02:14:55] <nick> you just missed phoenix666, ready to join the team
[02:15:30] <LaminatorX> It'll probably calm down later this year, but we're replacing like five legacy systems with salesforce.com starting Tuesday.
[02:15:44] <Bytram> sounds like quite a change over.... good luck!
[02:16:07] <LaminatorX> Shame I missed him. We also need to catch Appalbarry. He's been a solid contributor since day 1, and we've somehow never managed to snag him as staff.
[02:16:09] <Bytram> are you running in parallel for a while, or just jumping right in?
[02:16:19] <Bytram> LaminatorX: agreed.
[02:16:28] <nick> i thought he was already staff
[02:16:37] <nick> actually, appalbarry
[02:17:05] <Bytram> ISTR he was with the site darn near from the beginning?
[02:17:09] <LaminatorX> Not that I'm aware of. I recommended him to both Barrabas and NCommander for his experience with non-profits.
[02:17:21] <nick> hope everything goes well at work though, i know how that shit goes
[02:17:35] <nick> i checked the wiki and it said he wasn't, using the tools!
[02:17:51] <LaminatorX> So far, so good. We're migrating one office at a time throughout spring and summer.
[02:17:58] <Bytram> yeah, appalbary has UID 66 -- that's before the site went alpha
[02:18:11] <Bytram> LaminatorX: glad to hear it!
[02:18:12] <NCommander> I vaguely remember this conversation
[02:18:21] <LaminatorX> He goes back to the phpbb, yyes.
[02:18:30] <nick> g'day NCommander
[02:18:36] <LaminatorX> Hey there.
[02:19:10] <Bytram> NCommander: g'day!
[02:20:31] <LaminatorX> You still up in Alaska, NCommander? It's been ages since we synced up.
[02:23:15] <LaminatorX> Something we need to do is be more pro-active about recruiting. The call for help here is a good shot in the arm, for me as much as anyone, but long term our process needs to account for the fact that most Editors we train quit within a few months, and If we're not planning for that we're setting ourselves up for trouble.
[02:23:37] <nick> mhm
[02:23:46] <Bytram> LaminatorX: +1 Insightful
[02:23:54] <Bytram> LaminatorX++
[02:23:54] <Bender> karma - laminatorx: 7
[02:24:01] <nick> it's painful but yeah, thats probably not going to change
[02:24:34] <Bytram> nick: are you talking about the editor situation, or the editorial UI?
[02:24:51] <nick> situation
[02:24:58] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:25:20] <LaminatorX> I won't lie, part of how it got this way is me not wanting to face that frustration.
[02:25:21] <Bytram> methinks that if the UI were less obtuse, we might hold onto folks a bit longer?
[02:25:35] <nick> if they cant figure out the ui, i dont see how they got this far
[02:26:07] <LaminatorX> The ui is a bit wonky, but once you're used to it it's not so bad. That's a training challenge, but I don't know that it's a retention problem.
[02:26:11] <nick> every bit of software i use sucks, in my bias opinion lol
[02:26:14] <Bytram> oh, I got it figured out. It's just that it is not an ideal layout for productivity.
[02:26:32] <Bytram> I feel like I get things done as much as 'in spite of' the interface as anything.
[02:26:41] <paulej72> yes it needs an overhaul
[02:26:53] <nick> Bytram, you are right
[02:26:58] <Bytram> it's not that it's that bad, it's just not that good.
[02:27:29] <nick> it works
[02:27:41] <Bytram> for example, there's times when I want to push up a story, and there's no simple way to rearrange the story times short of opening each one and messing with the control, there.
[02:27:59] <Bytram> would be a lot more convenient if I could do that from the story list window.
[02:28:01] <paulej72> topic and nuxus should be multi choice checkboxes or some such
[02:28:10] <Bytram> otoh, that oculd lead to some interesting race conditions, too.
[02:28:22] <Bytram> paulej72++ PELASE PLESE PLEASE!!!!!!!
[02:28:22] <Bender> karma - paulej72: 7
[02:28:41] <Bytram> just a drop-down list box would be nice!
[02:29:04] <paulej72> I dislike multislect dropdowns
[02:29:14] <nick> agree with paulej72
[02:29:17] <paulej72> bad ui choice
[02:29:40] * Bytram prolly doesn't understand all the capabilities of the current controls for that
[02:29:51] <nick> nexus across the top and list of topics with checkboxes
[02:30:08] <nick> would seem most logical to me
[02:30:20] <Bytram> there's standard GUI controls for multi-selecting [drop-down] list boxes
[02:30:33] <paulej72> and they suck
[02:30:35] <Bytram> hold shift and click all the ones you want.
[02:30:41] <Bytram> lol
[02:30:43] <nick> lol
[02:31:10] <paulej72> click wrong and all your selections go poof
[02:31:51] <paulej72> it is compact, though
[02:32:00] <Bytram> or, hold shift, use arrow keys to navigate, hit space to toggle selection under the cursor
[02:32:17] <LaminatorX> Changing topix on my ipad is hell.
[02:33:04] * Bytram is just getting used to using a touch interface... quite a change in paradigm.
[02:33:06] <Bytram> nograb
[02:33:15] <LaminatorX> Not something it was designed for, I know, but that particular tool is particularly bad on the go.
[02:33:16] <nick> that scares me
[02:33:59] <nick> touch interface, it's going to force itself on me one day. i have never tried editing on my phone.
[02:34:12] <Bytram> even with all the tools at my disposal onmy main machine with a nice kbd, display, and mouse, that topic choice control is, umm, obtuse
[02:35:16] <nick> you wonder why it would be like that
[02:35:23] <nick> no answer...
[02:36:28] <paulej72> it probably has to do with ordering the topics to give precident
[02:36:54] <LaminatorX> One thing that wouldn't be too hard to do that I would find beneficial is to see the go-time of the last story in the queue while working on another one. I'm forever having to go back and change the time a second time. Tabs are an option, I realize, but it would still be great to see that while I was setting the time for the next post.
[02:37:21] * Bytram just added a missing word in the 'Equation Group' story
[02:37:51] <nick> agree
[02:38:33] <Bytram> may the last *two* as we sometimes queue a story ahead with display=NO so we can work on it together before release.
[02:38:52] <Bytram> for example, this very story on editors on SN was up for a couple-three days before it went live
[02:39:08] <Bytram> otherwise, Great Idea!
[02:39:10] <nick> next story ready to go live
[02:39:14] <Bytram> bingo
[02:39:17] <nick> or 'last'
[02:39:29] <Bytram> yeah, that's it.
[02:40:06] <nick> need the next story thats about to go live, and the last story thats red/green
[02:40:29] <Bytram> I'd go for having another column in the https://soylentnews.org list which showed the number of minutes between stories
[02:40:29] <NetCraft> ^ 03302 Moved ( https://soylentnews.org )
[02:40:44] <Bytram> that, and PLEASE right-justify the Hits and Comments columns!
[02:41:27] <nick> if we're creating a wish list, a box to put a note in the story, like we have for submissions!
[02:41:30] <nick> :p
[02:41:39] <Bytram> for example?
[02:42:15] <nick> in the submissions queue, we can write notes before we accept them... but when we do accept them that text gets lost
[02:42:25] <nick> it would be nice to keep it
[02:42:54] <Bytram> ahhh. understood. Problem is where would be display it?
[02:42:57] <nick> like now the submission for a poll has a note on it
[02:43:05] <Bytram> nodnod
[02:43:23] <nick> the headline doesn't need as much space
[02:43:30] <Bytram> disagree
[02:43:36] <Bytram> sometimes it needs *more* space
[02:43:57] <Bytram> what would help is if the URL had an additional arg:
[02:43:58] <nick> :/
[02:44:42] <paulej72> Bytram: I can fix the columns when I do that work. see the new mod bomb report for proper columns
[02:44:44] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[02:44:44] <NetCraft> ^ 03Error
[02:45:02] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[02:45:02] <NetCraft> ^ 03Error
[02:45:22] <Bytram> paulej72: much obliged... where can I find that report?
[02:45:30] <Bytram> on dev, right?
[02:45:45] <paulej72> https://dev.soylentnews.org
[02:45:45] <NetCraft> ^ 03302 Moved ( https://dev.soylentnews.org )
[02:46:11] <paulej72> set the hours to 300 to see some entries
[02:46:40] <Bytram> is that in the admin title bar somewhere?
[02:47:05] <paulej72> Security: Mod Bombs
[02:48:15] <Bytram> question: 'ban'... from the site? or from modding?
[02:48:33] <LaminatorX> I heard they went to the sea shore to rumble with the Rocker Bombs.
[02:48:37] <paulej72> every column has an seperate class so it can by styled seperatly.
[02:48:44] <Bytram> css++
[02:48:44] <Bender> karma - css: 1
[02:48:58] <paulej72> Bytram: mod ban, just like the spam one
[02:49:00] <Bytram> what does the '*' following the Datestamp signify?
[02:49:38] <paulej72> inactive entry, which would mean that it was already undone.
[02:50:06] <Bytram> and the 'downmod floor' ??
[02:50:20] <paulej72> used befor when you would post and all you mods were removed.
[02:51:13] <paulej72> downmod floor is the min amount of downmods to look for. to weed out nromal trolls from the list;
[02:51:39] <paulej72> fi you set to 1 you get all downmods
[02:51:56] <paulej72> except no ACs on the list
[02:52:49] <Bytram> interesting... reasoning?
[02:53:17] <Bytram> maybe add a checkbox '[ ] Include ACs in list'
[02:54:35] <Bytram> 'tis late and I've got an early day tomorrow...
[02:54:42] <Bytram> thanks for the nice chats and info!
[02:55:02] <paulej72> I don’t care if ACs get modbommed
[02:55:15] <Bytram> good to step back for a sec and realize just how far we've come in just a little over a year!
[02:55:46] <Bytram> the community might.
[02:56:39] <Bytram> even without ipid's, I can often tell who is posting what and if *I* can do it, the community can, thus being able to mod bomb ACs
[02:56:49] <paulej72> modbombs are about looking at the karma
[02:57:41] <Bytram> and karma is a side-effect/consequence of moderation -- the point of which is to help the creme-de-creme float to the top and gain visibility, and to hide the crap.
[02:57:54] <Bytram> od-bombing hides creme as if it were crap.
[02:58:01] <Bytram> s/^od/mod/
[02:58:23] <paulej72> I guess I could make it do ACs as well, it ould make the query much harder. as I would need to count on ipid for acs, not users
[02:58:49] <Bytram> would it be easier to do now, or save it for release 2?
[02:59:00] <paulej72> release 2
[02:59:03] <Bytram> it's fresh in your mind atm, but there's plenty enough already in the queue.
[02:59:05] <Bytram> k
[02:59:10] <Bytram> that's fine with me.
[03:00:06] <Bytram> afk, biab
[03:00:07] <paulej72> might have to do it with a sepeaate query just for acs and merge the two lists
[03:00:33] <Bytram> that's a thought...
[03:01:23] <paulej72> SELECT comments.sid AS sid, comments.cid AS cid, comments.pid AS pid, comments.points AS score, comments.karma AS karma, users.uid AS uid, users.nickname AS nickname, moderatorlog.ipid AS ipid, moderatorlog.val AS val, moderatorlog.reason AS reason, moderatorlog.ts AS ts, moderatorlog.active AS active, moderatorlog.id AS id, moderatorlog.points_orig AS points_orig, comments.uid AS uid2, comments.ipid AS ipid2 FROM moderatorlog, user
[03:01:24] <paulej72> comments WHERE moderatorlog.uid=users.uid AND moderatorlog.cid=comments.cid AND val < 0 AND moderatorlog.cuid IN (SELECT cuid FROM moderatorlog WHERE val < 0 AND cuid <> 1 AND ts > DATE_SUB(NOW(), INTERVAL 72 HOUR) GROUP BY cuid HAVING COUNT(cuid) >= 3) AND ts > DATE_SUB(NOW(), INTERVAL 72 HOUR) ORDER BY uid2;
[03:02:05] <paulej72> that is the monster query that does the work now
[03:03:24] * Bytram has seen worse
[03:03:44] <Bytram> I'm assuming that '72 HOUR' is from the 'Time Span' field...
[03:04:11] <Bytram> and the 'COUNT(cuid) >= 3 gets the '3; from the 'Downmod Floor' field.
[03:04:29] <paulej72> yeah, that sql was my raw testing, I have vars in for the two fields
[03:04:36] <Bytram> nod nod
[03:05:06] <paulej72> first time I did counts and sub queries
[03:06:21] <Bytram> looks like you are only querying, what, 3 tables? users, comments, and moderatorlog?
[03:06:32] <paulej72> felt that sql could do the work better than trying to work through a hash oh hashes in perl to generate the data
[03:06:38] <paulej72> yes three tables
[03:06:41] <Bytram> bingo!
[03:06:49] <Bytram> that's what it's there for!
[03:07:26] * Bytram has coded queries hitting 8-10 tables, 20-30 columns with nested subqueries, group by's, and sums, etc.
[03:07:40] * Bytram must note that was quite a few years ago.
[03:08:13] <Bytram> takes a while to get my head around all that stuff at first, but after awhile, it just became another tool in my toolbox of how I can look at stuff and organize / manipulate it.
[03:08:35] <paulej72> damn, I should probably sanitize those two inputs to make sure they are digits only
[03:08:55] * Bytram perks up and scuries over to try THAT out!
[03:09:16] <Bytram> Downmod Floor == 'A" ==>
[03:09:23] <Bytram> HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 03:09:01 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.42 (Unix) mod_perl/1.31 Connection: close Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
[03:09:23] <Bytram> OK
[03:09:23] <Bytram> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
[03:09:23] <Bytram> Please contact the server administrator, admin@dev.soylentnews.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
[03:09:24] <Bytram> More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
[03:09:26] <Bytram> Apache/1.3.42 Server at dev.soylentnews.org Port 2600
[03:09:30] <Bytram> :(
[03:09:51] <Bytram> ---
[03:09:51] <NetCraft> Karma - -: -6
[03:09:53] <paulej72> yep need to fix that
[03:09:56] <Bytram> Time Span (in hours) == 'ABC'
[03:10:06] <Bytram> HTTP/1.1 200 OK Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 03:09:59 GMT Server: Apache/1.3.42 (Unix) mod_perl/1.31 Connection: close Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
[03:10:07] <Bytram> OK
[03:10:07] <Bytram> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
[03:10:07] <Bytram> Please contact the server administrator, admin@dev.soylentnews.org and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
[03:10:07] <Bytram> More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
[03:10:09] <Bytram> Apache/1.3.42 Server at dev.soylentnews.org Port 2600
[03:10:21] <Bytram> Good catch!
[03:10:39] <LaminatorX> My SQL puzzle for the day was working out response times for account planners relative to their business day irrespective of the fact that they're salaried and don't have set shifts.
[03:10:54] <paulej72> want to make sure we don’t have a sql injection point
[03:11:44] <Bytram> drat! How ever are we now going to tell when a user gets mod bombed by bobby tables?
[03:11:59] <LaminatorX> Right. I have a signed print of "Exploits of a Mom"
[03:13:08] <LaminatorX> Had it hanging in my cube back when I dealt with student information systems all day.
[03:14:10] <Bytram> LOL
[03:14:28] <Bytram> just remember that it is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious
[03:14:42] <mrcoolbp> Hi LaminatorX
[03:14:44] <Bytram> also, they've had a lifetime of practice, too.
[03:15:08] <LaminatorX> Best thing there was discovering that I could get documentation for the terminal protocol that Arkansas's statewide system used from NASA, because they still use the same protocol to talk to the ISS.
[03:15:28] <LaminatorX> Mi MrCoolBP.
[03:15:47] <mrcoolbp> = )
[03:16:34] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX: I'll see what I can do about getting Pheonix666 started up , what about Appalbarry? Did he mention something about joining?
[03:19:07] <LaminatorX> He oferred, I responded with "Let's catch up next week." I'm leaving town for a few days tomorrow AM. I'll check in periodically, but won't have time for serious business until I get back.
[03:19:49] <nick> janrinok might be able to bring a couple people up on it
[03:20:02] <mrcoolbp> understood, If I see him around I'll see what I can do but I won't pester him
[03:20:02] <nick> got Subsentient through it recently i think?
[03:20:12] <LaminatorX> If he's feeling spry.
[03:20:13] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[03:20:14] <mrcoolbp> yeah, Subsentient is all good to go
[03:20:23] <nick> aye
[03:20:30] <mrcoolbp> LaminatorX, excellent, let me know if there's anything I can do for you
[03:21:11] <Bytram|away> btw, while you all are here... what's the protocol if I see a story come in that looks like it would benefit from running sooner than what would be the next open time slot
[03:21:20] <LaminatorX> Go ahead and give them both editor bits on dev, if you would. Easier to avoid bottlenecks later on.
[03:21:27] <mrcoolbp> ^^^
[03:21:34] <Bytram|away> IOW, what if we've got 12 stories queued, and a submission comes in that is more 'timely'
[03:21:52] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: I beleive run it and see if you can get someone to give it a check
[03:21:52] <Bytram|away> than the last one that is queued to go out in 26 hours.
[03:22:14] <LaminatorX> Popping in here is fine, as is emailing editors if no one is around.
[03:22:29] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: but "BREAKING" news there's some leeway on the rules (I beleive) in the sake of expediency
[03:22:33] <Bytram|away> I just don't want to ruffle any feathers, yanno?
[03:22:46] <LaminatorX> Breaking news ans security exploits can always run immediately.
[03:23:05] <mrcoolbp> Bytram ^ you are authorized
[03:23:09] <mrcoolbp> = )
[03:23:14] <Bytram|away> also, do I just try and find a story to push out to the end and drop it in to replace it, or drop it in, and push the next 12 stories down to the next slot?
[03:23:36] <Bytram|away> I try to push the rest of them down in sequence, but it is time-consuming
[03:23:41] <mrcoolbp> Bytram: if there's a non-time sensitive one you could probably bumb that
[03:23:56] <nick> every story/queue is a little different
[03:24:02] <mrcoolbp> sometimes you can just throw it in ther
[03:24:06] <mrcoolbp> use your judgement
[03:24:13] <nick> ^^
[03:24:23] <Bytram|away> k
[03:24:33] <mrcoolbp> no wget some sleep!
[03:24:38] * Bytram|away channels the scarecrow -- to no avail
[03:24:42] <mrcoolbp> lol at my typo
[03:25:20] * mrcoolbp slithers away to get some rest
[03:25:37] * mrcoolbp says "later peoplez"
[03:26:18] <NCommander> LaminatorX, Rochester, NY
[03:26:20] * NCommander is exhausted
[03:28:27] -!- Bytram|away has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[03:33:22] <LaminatorX> Lotsa that goin around. On that note, I think I'll head to bed too.
[03:33:49] -!- LaminatorX has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[03:34:02] <NetCraft> ^ 03SN comment by drgibbon (74)
[09:20:33] -!- janrinok [janrinok!~janrinok@Soylent/Staff/Editor/janrinok] has joined #editorial
[09:20:33] -!- mode/#editorial [+v janrinok] by SkyNet
[09:20:55] <janrinok> hi guys
[12:08:06] -!- CoolHand [CoolHand!~CoolHand@njgbfhmuvz.org] has joined #editorial
[12:41:37] <CoolHand> I was checking out some of the editor stuff, and reading through the style guide when I saw the "serial comma" section (or Oxford comma). For anyone who isn't familiar with Vampire Weekend's "Oxford Comma" song, I highly recommend it.. :) http://www.youtube.com you'll never think about commas the same way again :) http://genius.com
[12:41:40] <NetCraft> ^ 03Vampire Weekend - Oxford Comma - YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com )
[12:41:40] <NetCraft> ^ 03Vampire Weekend – Oxford Comma Lyrics | Genius
[12:42:16] <CoolHand> that should be the "theme song" for all editors
[13:01:37] -!- Azrael has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[13:08:54] -!- Tachyon has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
[13:09:45] -!- FatPhil [FatPhil!phil@azdr.ee] has joined #editorial
[13:10:52] <FatPhil> how's the call for more editors?
[13:11:36] <FatPhil> I'm demotivated at work currently, and could perhaps contribute a bit?
[13:15:53] <mrcoolbp> Hey FatPhi
[13:15:57] <mrcoolbp> Hey FatPhil
[13:16:51] <mrcoolbp> it's good to see you around again!
[13:17:34] <mrcoolbp> bunch of responses on the thread, I replied to there, and asked them to meet me here, but who knows how that'll go
[13:18:52] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: I halfway volunteered to janrinok and TMB the other day in the main channel when they were looking for help.. I said I'd be willing but my w/e time especially is somewhat limited so told them if they found better people that was cool.. I'd still be willing, however, just have some time constraints, but that sounds about par for the course.. :)
[13:19:45] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: I'm just not in the habit of turning a willing talented person down
[13:20:25] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand/FatPhil: did you read the "Editing Process" yet? it's quite informative
[13:20:51] <CoolHand> well, I read about 2/3's of it then got distracted by the style guide and oxford commas
[13:20:54] <CoolHand> :)
[13:21:04] <mrcoolbp> that's a good start
[13:22:17] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: next step is jumping onto the dev server and playing around a bit
[13:23:16] -!- Azrael [Azrael!~Az@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Azrael] has joined #editorial
[13:23:16] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Azrael] by SkyNet
[13:23:24] <mrcoolbp> mornin Azrael
[13:23:27] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: ok.. not sure if I've been there b4.. if so, don't remember url
[13:23:56] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: once you're done reading http://sylnt.us I can hook you up with editor bits on dev
[13:23:58] <NetCraft> ^ 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[13:24:42] <mrcoolbp> mornin janrinok/nick
[13:26:10] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: i'm going for coffee, then will finish reading (unless work gets in the way.. ;) ), then will let u know when done
[13:26:24] <mrcoolbp> yeah I need coffee too
[13:37:07] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: hi - get my emails?
[13:39:31] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: looking now
[13:40:11] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: just one email, Pax681
[13:40:18] <janrinok> should be 2
[13:41:02] <janrinok> greenfrogbutt too
[13:41:07] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: resend
[13:41:11] <janrinok> k
[13:43:01] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: did you want me to respond to them?
[13:43:25] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: received
[13:43:41] <janrinok> well I haven't done so far, but we need to keep a record somewhere central. I've also copied them to LamX
[13:45:07] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: I can respond if you like
[13:45:27] <mrcoolbp> w/e
[13:45:35] <janrinok> thx. I wasn't expecting volunteers - I was trying to re-recruit some of those that we had already trained
[13:45:50] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: the one time we don't ask, there they are
[13:46:00] <mrcoolbp> I responded to a bunch late last night
[13:46:14] <janrinok> a bunch? - that sounds promising...
[13:46:18] <mrcoolbp> bound to yield a few good ones from sheer volume alone
[13:46:28] <mrcoolbp> check the article again = )
[13:46:51] <janrinok> ah, k, I see what you mean. I thought you meant emails for a moment...
[13:47:45] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: I've finished reading the editing process article (although I will leave it in a pinned tab for quick reference)
[13:47:49] <nick> afternoon peoples
[13:47:54] <janrinok> hi nick
[13:47:58] <mrcoolbp> 'noon nick
[13:48:10] <nick> more new recruits?
[13:48:20] <janrinok> two in my email
[13:48:20] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: okay if that made sense and you don't run away screaming, we can get you on dev to mess around
[13:48:50] <mrcoolbp> FatPhil popped his head in to jump in to
[13:48:58] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: sure.. mostly self explanatory.. couple of slightly confusing parts, but should clear up with some practical hands on experience in dev
[13:49:11] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: exactly
[13:49:28] <janrinok> if you giv me 15 mins or so, CoolHand, I can help talk you through it if you wish
[13:49:42] <CoolHand> ok..
[13:49:46] <nick> janrinok++
[13:49:47] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 22
[13:50:01] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: you have editor priveledges on dev.soylentnews.org
[13:50:17] <mrcoolbp> you will notice and admin interface at the top now
[13:50:23] <mrcoolbp> (you will need to login)
[13:50:59] <CoolHand> it's pink...
[13:51:00] <CoolHand> hehe
[13:51:08] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: you can change the theme
[13:51:23] <mrcoolbp> Preferences (on leftnav) then "Homepage"
[13:51:33] <CoolHand> but why would I want to? it's soooo purtyyy. :) ok, prefs,home
[13:51:39] <mrcoolbp> lol
[13:51:49] <nick> <3 the black theme
[13:52:10] * janrinok hopes that isn't followed by 'squeak piggy squeak'...
[13:52:13] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: while you wait for janrinok, you can poke around and try to match up some of the pages mentioned in "Editing Process" with realworld pages
[13:52:14] <CoolHand> (I'm in prefs->home)
[13:52:24] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: ok, will do
[13:52:25] <mrcoolbp> sec
[13:52:55] <CoolHand> oh, u were just telling me where them is.. I know that.. have mine adjusted on main site.. :)
[13:53:06] <mrcoolbp> lool
[13:53:34] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: okay, checkt out "Stories" at the top, and "Submissions" first
[13:53:52] <mrcoolbp> jan will be around shortly to guide you through
[13:54:31] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: LaminatorX mentioned using google hangouts (or skype or somtheing) to show new recruits the ropes, sounds like more efficient then typing
[13:54:51] <mrcoolbp> he has a head start though
[13:55:08] <mrcoolbp> he read through editing process guide and such
[13:55:27] <nick> thats personal preference, ive had some choice words to say to people suggesting i use google hangouts ;)
[13:55:29] <janrinok> it is if you have a camera on your computer - alas, I do not.
[13:56:00] <mrcoolbp> audio would be the important part I imagine
[13:56:05] * janrinok actually does not _want_ a camera on his computers
[13:56:34] <CoolHand> but I couldn't do that method on the sly at work..
[13:56:37] <nick> might just be me, but i found text easy enough, janrinok is very good at explaining
[13:56:57] <janrinok> ..he says the nicest things
[13:57:17] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: no worries, you can open up a submission click preview to get to the main editor panel while you wait for jan
[13:57:36] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: done.. looking at now
[13:58:04] <mrcoolbp> there's a bunch of unlabeled textboxes, ignore those for now
[13:58:05] <janrinok> CoolHand is obviously too bright to be an editor!
[13:58:19] <CoolHand> :P
[13:58:46] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: if you UNCHECK the "Display" checkbox, anything you "do" won't go out to the "main page" (dev main page so no bigge if you screw up anyway)
[13:59:25] * mrcoolbp goes to respond to emails
[13:59:52] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: k
[14:00:33] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: let us know if you have any questions
[14:00:55] <mrcoolbp> looks like jan's guide is actually quite helpful
[14:02:00] * nick is just here to confuse the situation
[14:02:10] <CoolHand> i've selected my name in dropdown as author, but "posted by" still blank in preview..
[14:02:16] <CoolHand> is that normal?
[14:02:51] <janrinok> Yes, for now
[14:03:27] <janrinok> CoolHand: your name will not appear as an author until your first story goes out, it's a known bug in the prog
[14:03:40] <janrinok> a bit chicken and egg really
[14:03:50] <CoolHand> so, I did a couple things on this "mission to discover black holes" article.. can I "save it" now to see what has happened in queue?
[14:03:55] <CoolHand> display is unchecked
[14:05:12] <janrinok> you are currently editing Mission to discover hundreds of black holes ?
[14:05:25] <CoolHand> yes
[14:05:29] <CoolHand> on dev
[14:05:57] <janrinok> there are two in the sub queue can you confirm which it is please
[14:06:25] <janrinok> does it have ScienceDaily in the title or not
[14:06:32] <CoolHand> yes
[14:06:36] <janrinok> k
[14:06:50] <CoolHand> (i was trying to find some sort of unique identifier somwhere.. :) )
[14:07:02] <janrinok> np we'll cover that later
[14:07:38] <janrinok> and confirm that you are on the main editing page with Topics, Title, etc on it
[14:08:10] <CoolHand> yes
[14:08:22] <CoolHand> in yellow (topic,title, dept, author, intro copy)
[14:08:50] <CoolHand> +some more big boxes below that I wasn't too concerned with yet
[14:08:51] <janrinok> k - at least we are in the same place. I've got it open too, but we will not see each other's changes until we save and update, so I just had to be sure
[14:09:18] <CoolHand> janrinok: should we open a query window to keep this out of channel?
[14:09:30] <CoolHand> or is it ok here?
[14:09:38] <janrinok> OK, I'll concentrate on the controls on this page rather than the overall task of an editor
[14:09:44] <janrinok> CoolHand: OK pm me
[14:22:55] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: emails sent to both froggy and pax
[14:23:10] <janrinok> thx
[14:23:45] <nick> yay for new editor
[14:24:07] * mrcoolbp rejoices
[14:24:48] <mrcoolbp> nick: consider being "n1" today, that's the name we used on the story for people to ping you
[14:25:13] <nick> probably more helpful
[14:25:20] nick is now known as n1
[14:25:45] * n1 will try not to scare off the new editors
[14:30:00] <mrcoolbp> = )
[14:52:47] <paulej72> looks like my comment about our favorite AC in the editors article did not go as I expected
[14:54:35] <n1> how do you mean?
[14:55:15] <CoolHand> since there are people "alive" in here now, I'm going to repost this once: I was checking out some of the editor stuff, and reading through the style guide when I saw the "serial
[14:55:19] <CoolHand> comma" section (or Oxford comma). For anyone who isn't familiar with Vampire Weekend's "Oxford Comma" song, I highly
[14:55:22] <CoolHand> recommend it.. :) http://www.youtube.com you'll never think about commas the same way again :)
[14:55:22] <NetCraft> ^ 03Vampire Weekend - Oxford Comma - YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com )
[14:55:25] <CoolHand> http://genius.com
[14:55:25] <NetCraft> ^* 03Vampire Weekend – Oxford Comma Lyrics | Genius
[14:55:45] <paulej72> I was expecting less sympathy with the AC than I got
[14:57:13] <n1> if anything this situation proves the system works, he got as much credit as he deserved
[14:57:37] <n1> im looking through the replies to your comment
[14:58:19] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: I'm loling at your vid
[14:59:26] <n1> marand deserves a reply
[14:59:38] <n1> which i can do after lunch
[15:01:22] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: glad someone appreciates it :) I actually haven't watched the video b4, just listened to the song a lot.. the video is on my todo list to watch at lunchtime :)
[15:01:36] <mrcoolbp> = )
[15:16:41] -!- Tachyon [Tachyon!~Tachyon@94.142.ryu.uz] has joined #editorial
[15:16:54] <mrcoolbp> hey Tachyon
[15:22:24] <n1> so i guess soylentnews can be banned in the UK for linking to tpb now?
[15:23:56] <mrcoolbp> n1: according to what?
[15:24:10] <n1> [SoylentNews] - UK ISPs Block Sites that List Pirate Bay Proxies - http://sylnt.us - whack-a-mole
[15:24:12] <NetCraft> ^ 03SN article: UK ISPs Block Sites that List Pirate Bay Proxies 04(3 comments) ( https://soylentnews.org )
[15:25:07] <n1> tfs includes a direct link to tpb, which is not a proxy obviously but there is also links to the proxy list sites. it's right to do so
[15:30:26] <mrcoolbp> hrm
[15:31:03] <FatPhil> now reading Editing Process. All makes sense so far.
[15:31:05] <n1> it happened before i understand, not SN, but other news sites, when they stated playing with blocking sites
[15:31:16] <n1> hi FatPhil
[15:33:09] <mrcoolbp> FatPhil: after you read the EditingProcess doc, I'll hook you up with editor privs on dev,
[15:33:33] <mrcoolbp> you can then play around and we can guide you through the rest
[15:33:49] <FatPhil> Do I need a ssh pub, or good old-fashioned name/passwd?
[15:34:25] <mrcoolbp> FatPhil: for editing, you only need an account and a relatively modern browser
[15:34:33] <mrcoolbp> site account (you already have one)
[15:34:33] <FatPhil> That's me screwed then!
[15:34:37] <mrcoolbp> lol
[15:35:06] <mrcoolbp> actually, I've not tested it on a 1997 browser, prolly would still work (code was written in that year)
[15:35:20] <mrcoolbp> as long as it's not netscape, you are probably good
[15:35:42] <FatPhil> OK, I'm FF3.5 and sometimes w3m.
[15:36:07] <mrcoolbp> FatPhil: ping me when you are done with the editorial documentation
[15:37:05] <mrcoolbp> BRB making food for my sick wife
[15:38:29] <Tachyon> mrcoolbp: hello :)
[15:39:18] <mrcoolbp> hi!
[15:40:59] <paulej72> the editor interface has some js that needs to run so ff 3.5 should work just fine.
[15:42:21] <paulej72> mrcoolbp: at least you are not not making your wife sick with food
[15:43:02] <FatPhil> "arbitrary limit enforced on the title length of 85 characters. [This appears to be a bug - it is being investigated]" - how is that investigation going?
[15:44:43] <mrcoolbp> paulej72 $
[15:44:45] <paulej72> that info is a bit out of date. i think i upped that char limit to somthing else, but that was like a year ago, so I am not sure what the number is
[15:44:56] <mrcoolbp> lol
[15:46:04] <paulej72> i will need to look at the code later to see what that number is. I am on my ipad so that is a bit of a pain to do right now
[15:47:03] <n1> we dont ever have any problems in reaching the limit
[15:47:11] <n1> not that i have ever experienced anyway
[15:47:55] <paulej72> i think it at least 100 now, but i can't remember
[15:49:01] <paulej72> n1, as in we do not reach the limit in normal situations, rahter than we always reach the limit
[15:49:34] <n1> as in we dont reach the limit
[15:49:37] <mrcoolbp> = )
[15:49:54] <n1> tend to consider how its going to display on main page
[15:49:57] <n1> and rss feeds
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[15:51:29] <paulej72> today is dog and pony show ii for me. going to be a long day at work, but i do get fed for free.
[15:53:05] -!- Tachyon [Tachyon!~Tachyon@94.142.ryu.uz] has joined #editorial
[15:54:04] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: first phase complete - he will do OK. give him some time on dev and he will be a very worthwhile ed in my view
[15:54:14] <mrcoolbp> excellent
[15:54:34] <janrinok> far too bright to be an editor though ;)
[15:54:39] <mrcoolbp> = )
[15:54:52] <mrcoolbp> in the meantime I can get him an email address, and start the on-boarding I suppose
[15:55:21] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: would you like an @soylentnews.org email address? if so I'm guessing "coolhand@soylentnews.org" ?
[15:55:56] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: once he has some sample stories, we can email LaminatorX for approval
[15:56:15] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: I'm reading through our long-forgotten efforts: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[15:56:16] <NetCraft> ^ 03Wiki: SoylentNews Policy Document
[16:05:30] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: .. and on reading you concluded what?
[16:06:10] <mrcoolbp> still reading/editing minor things
[16:06:32] <mrcoolbp> I will send out to the staff-list for review (as I promised months ago) after I'm done
[16:06:58] <janrinok> ah ok, I thought you had another job lined up for me then...;)
[16:07:27] -!- Phoenix666 [Phoenix666!~Phoenix66@qbdb-64-293-838-329.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #editorial
[16:07:34] <mrcoolbp> Hi Pheonix666
[16:07:37] <janrinok> hi Phoenix666
[16:07:40] <mrcoolbp> = )
[16:07:40] <Phoenix666> hi guys
[16:07:44] <mrcoolbp> how are you?
[16:07:52] <Phoenix666> good, how are you both?
[16:08:04] <janrinok> good I guess.
[16:08:18] <mrcoolbp> great, we are training potential editors today
[16:08:20] <Phoenix666> i saw your post yesterday and thought i'd offer to help out with editing
[16:08:51] * janrinok hopes he can have a short break before the next one...
[16:09:01] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: go take your break whenever, we got this
[16:09:05] <janrinok> thx
[16:09:21] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix666: cool, have you read the editorial docs?
[16:09:49] <Phoenix666> i read the styleguide last night, and dropped back in now to get the links to the other ones. shall i read those first now and loop back afterward?
[16:09:56] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix666: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[16:09:56] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[16:10:24] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix666: That's the primer on the editing interface and the process of editing a story
[16:10:39] <Phoenix666> OK, I'll read those now and loop back.
[16:12:18] <mrcoolbp> cool, ping me here
[16:16:32] <n1> wb Phoenix666!
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[16:17:22] <Phoenix666> thanks, n1
[16:17:47] <n1> glad i didnt scare you off last night ;)
[16:24:05] <Phoenix666> nah, not at all
[16:24:40] <Phoenix666> are there screenshots of the editor screens that can accompany the subtopics in the wiki?
[16:25:02] <Phoenix666> visuals would help put the functionality in context
[16:25:09] <janrinok> Phoenix666: no, but that is a very good idea....
[16:25:27] * janrinok puts visuals on his todo list
[16:25:38] <mrcoolbp> janrinok, Pheonix666: I've been meeaning to do that too
[16:25:43] <mrcoolbp> I can work on that today I suppose
[16:25:52] * mrcoolbp is doing like 2387 things at once right now
[16:26:03] <janrinok> that's not many for you
[16:26:09] <mrcoolbp> I know, it's an easy day
[16:26:17] <Phoenix666> i was also asking last night if there's a particularly good time in the 24-hr cycle for noobs like me to get their feet wet
[16:26:46] <Phoenix666> and also if there's a particular time in the cycle that has thinner coverage
[16:26:57] <Phoenix666> so when i'm up to speed i can help bridge those gaps
[16:28:11] <janrinok> either an hour or two before this or and hour or two later tomorrow onwards is good for me
[16:28:40] <Phoenix666> i could get the screen captures of the screens and try to put the labels on, if it would help. it would help me absorb the info in the wiki at the same time
[16:28:59] <janrinok> and the second question is best explained once you understand the process.
[16:29:16] <janrinok> mrcoolbp will have to get you access to dev for that to happen.
[16:29:38] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix, janrinok: I already started work on the graphics, example: http://imgur.com
[16:29:39] <NetCraft> ^ 03Imgur
[16:30:12] <janrinok> ah, you've got access to dev?!
[16:30:13] <n1> mrcoolbp++
[16:30:13] <Bender> karma - mrcoolbp: 4
[16:30:18] <Phoenix666> that helps a lot
[16:30:30] -!- cmn32480 [cmn32480!~17186141@23.24.kp.ip] has joined #editorial
[16:30:41] <mrcoolbp> hey cmn32480
[16:30:56] <cmn32480> Please keep in mind that I am an absolute newb with IRC
[16:31:00] <janrinok> bbl
[16:31:05] <mrcoolbp> later jan
[16:31:08] * mrcoolbp takes over
[16:31:09] <mrcoolbp> .op
[16:31:09] -!- mode/#editorial [+o mrcoolbp] by SkyNet
[16:31:11] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
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[16:31:25] <mrcoolbp> cmn32480: No problem, we can guide you through
[16:31:41] <cmn32480> Thank God for that, or it is gonna be a long hard day
[16:31:43] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix666: let me know when you are done reading the docs
[16:32:06] <mrcoolbp> cmn32480: nah, no worries. It's basically a chatroom (there's other features too but don't worry about them for now)
[16:32:08] <Phoenix666> i read through, but will need a 2nd go-through with the visuals
[16:32:32] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix666: okay gimme a sec
[16:32:40] <mrcoolbp> cmn32480: so have you read the editorial docs yet?
[16:33:04] <cmn32480> I read through most of what was on the wiki last night
[16:33:20] <mrcoolbp> cmn32480: These 2: http://wiki.soylentnews.org AND http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[16:33:21] <NetCraft> ^ 03Wiki: Story Style
[16:33:21] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[16:33:57] <Phoenix666> mrcoolbp: OK, sitting tight
[16:34:39] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix666, cmn32480: if you are relatively comfortable with the EditingProcess, I can grant your account editor priveledges on our Dev server. Then we start to play around
[16:35:23] <Phoenix666> OK, that makes sense.
[16:35:32] <cmn32480> sounds good
[16:35:41] * mrcoolbp does that now
[16:35:56] <mrcoolbp> you two can goto dev.soylentnews.org
[16:35:57] <cmn32480> let us screw up dev first where a lot fewer people can see it...
[16:36:07] <n1> i'm feeling confident, if Phoenix666 gets permissions on dev, to give him a bit of a tutorial
[16:36:40] <Phoenix666> n1: thanks, it sounds straightforward from the wiki, and having the visuals to tie it in will get me most of the rest of the way
[16:36:58] -!- n1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[16:37:05] <cmn32480> Phoenix666: Agreed
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[16:37:52] <mrcoolbp> cmn32480, Phoenix666: okay, if you refresh dev you shall see an admin interface at the top of the page
[16:37:56] <mrcoolbp> n1: excellent, looks like we have a class of 2 people to work with now = ) Saves you some typing.
[16:38:30] <n1> would suggest only one person doing it at a time, but if the other wants to follow thats cool
[16:38:31] <cmn32480> got it. How very pink!
[16:39:01] <cmn32480> Phoenix666: you go first... I'll follow along.
[16:39:11] <mrcoolbp> yeah, bit of a gag TheMightyBuzzard likes to play. you can change your "Theme" under Preferences->Homepage
[16:39:20] <Phoenix666> that is definitely a sign that we're not in kansas anymore, toto
[16:39:40] <mrcoolbp> good to have a different theme between productions sever and dev server
[16:39:48] <mrcoolbp> I have black on one and Badass on another
[16:39:59] <mrcoolbp> black = Icicle or somethinge
[16:40:08] <mrcoolbp> n1: I'll turn them over to you if you are ready
[16:40:15] <n1> yeah, think so
[16:40:24] <Phoenix666> OK, I'm looking at submissions. clicking on ebola
[16:40:36] * mrcoolbp picks up Phoenix666 and cmn32480 and places them in n1's hands
[16:41:02] <n1> clicking on it in submissions will bring up a new page
[16:41:05] * mrcoolbp works on editor interface graphix
[16:41:46] <n1> not much to do on that, you can only change the note on that page and hit update
[16:41:47] <cmn32480> I
[16:41:51] <n1> if you hit preview it takes you to the main editing page
[16:41:57] <cmn32480> m following along on ORacle Cloud Service
[16:42:23] <n1> you can edit the story on the first page but there isn't much point, usually just hit preview if you're happy to continue with the summary after giving the submission a look
[16:43:35] <Phoenix666> right, so i checked the link to make sure it's legit, clicked preview and am in main editing screen
[16:43:38] <n1> the new page will give you all the editing options, first thing you'll see below the summary preview is 'related stories'
[16:44:22] <n1> that is the easiest place to look for dupes, but it is not perfect, being aware of the stories, or having another tab open on the stories page is a good idea to double check for dupes
[16:44:37] <Phoenix666> is that part keyword based?
[16:44:50] <n1> yes
[16:44:58] <n1> but it's some kind of voodoo
[16:45:45] <n1> we dont usually get many dupes, but that probably only catches half of them
[16:45:52] <Phoenix666> what's the best way to check for dupes manually? i have the site open on another tab but that means scrolling back through day after day
[16:45:59] <cmn32480> and we should scan back how far on the stories page (roughly) checking for dupes in general?
[16:46:09] <Phoenix666> i often see the same stories come up in the media with delays of 1-2 wks
[16:46:16] <n1> check what date the sources were published
[16:46:20] <n1> and use that as a guide
[16:46:24] <Phoenix666> ok
[16:46:58] <n1> if you follow the site most days, it's fairly easy to spot them i find
[16:47:08] <n1> or if you remember editing the same story!
[16:47:12] <Phoenix666> :)
[16:47:27] <cmn32480> sounds reasonable
[16:47:31] <Phoenix666> i guess that's the strength of the 2-editor system
[16:47:42] <n1> next thing to notice is the display checkbox
[16:47:43] <Phoenix666> i miss things on weekends
[16:48:01] <n1> it's a lot easier to refresh with the stories page, if you have been absent for a couple days
[16:48:16] <Phoenix666> got it
[16:48:38] <n1> when starting out it's good to set the story to not dispay and then update it
[16:48:59] <n1> any updates you make after that, the story wont go public until the display box has been rechecked
[16:49:03] <n1> and the story updated
[16:49:24] <n1> if you begin to edit a story, hit update, get distracted and come back to it without changing the time
[16:49:34] <n1> there's a good chance the story will go live before you mean it to
[16:49:46] <Phoenix666> that's a good tip
[16:49:47] <cmn32480> that would be important.
[16:49:48] <n1> unchecking that box solves that issue
[16:50:33] <n1> so, at the start it's best to uncheck the box and then start playing with the story
[16:50:59] <Phoenix666> OK, so uncheck Display, click Preview, Preview, Preview as you edit the submission, then Save to complete the process
[16:51:15] <n1> uncheck display and hit save
[16:51:21] <Phoenix666> right
[16:51:30] <n1> but as soon as a story is saved, it moves to the stories queue
[16:51:38] <n1> thats the only way to save any edits you make
[16:51:51] <n1> a preview will save it for now, but if you close the browser or something, you will lose it
[16:52:08] <Phoenix666> right, and if you make a mistake, the 2nd editor can uncheck Display to save it from the live queue?
[16:52:22] <n1> excuse me but a visiting dog just jumped on me...
[16:52:29] <Phoenix666> no prob!
[16:52:38] <cmn32480> awww... you got bacon in your pocket?
[16:53:19] <n1> think im safe now, he's very sweet but full of energy
[16:53:37] <Phoenix666> i have a 4yr old boy exactly like that
[16:53:54] <n1> second editor can do everything to the story that the first editor can
[16:54:15] <cmn32480> to make sure I got this right. we uncheck display, and click save, and it will NOT got to the live story queue, correct?
[16:54:20] <n1> usually, when you are happy with a story we would have the display box checked
[16:54:28] <n1> and hope a 2nd editor gets to it before live
[16:54:41] <Phoenix666> OK, so logging on, the first thing to do is check stories in red to give them a second read?
[16:54:55] <n1> only time you would leave a finish story set to not display is if you wanted to be sure it was appropriate
[16:54:55] <Phoenix666> to keep the story pipeline full
[16:54:58] <n1> or wasnt due to run
[16:55:02] <n1> for another reason
[16:55:19] <cmn32480> got it. :-)
[16:55:22] <n1> but the idea is for the queue to be far enough ahead there's time for a second editor to take a look
[16:56:15] <n1> that make sense?
[16:56:26] <cmn32480> Yes.
[16:56:26] <Phoenix666> sure
[16:56:40] <n1> next you will find the horrible topics box
[16:57:24] <n1> at the moment, the only nexus is the main page, it needs to stay like it is by default
[16:58:03] <Phoenix666> understood
[16:58:04] <n1> for the ebola story the topic is science, if you single click on science
[16:58:11] <n1> you can then add a second topic
[16:58:13] <n1> or remove that one
[16:58:29] <n1> the x on the right side deletes a topic
[16:58:35] <n1> the + opens up a menu to add another one
[16:58:47] <Phoenix666> got it
[16:59:00] <n1> single click on appropriate topic and hit add
[16:59:00] <cmn32480> got it
[16:59:06] <n1> you can add more than one, then hit close
[16:59:24] * mrcoolbp laughs at "the horrible topic box"
[16:59:26] <n1> you can use the arrows next to the x and + to arrange the order of the topics
[16:59:57] <Phoenix666> OK
[17:00:21] <n1> the nexus and topic has to go above it's marker in the box
[17:00:28] <Phoenix666> i actually love the topic box. fills me with such nostalgia for the early days of the web
[17:01:01] <n1> we were talking last night about making it a bit more user-friendly
[17:01:05] <cmn32480> Early days of the web? I think I was still in short pants then....
[17:01:20] <Phoenix666> when i started it was BBSes
[17:01:37] <Phoenix666> anyway, this is like finding a model T in working condition
[17:01:47] <n1> heh
[17:01:51] <n1> im glad you like it ;)
[17:02:07] <n1> happy with how that works now?
[17:02:24] <Phoenix666> yes
[17:02:38] <cmn32480> yes. Unlike most of life, pretty straightforward
[17:02:40] <Phoenix666> what circumstances would lead you to change the date stamp?
[17:03:00] <n1> the time/date of the story?
[17:03:29] <cmn32480> it looks like that is when it goes live, yes?
[17:03:34] <n1> the time/date box, by the comments enabled box
[17:03:39] <Phoenix666> yeah, it's in a text box like you would want to change that
[17:03:39] <n1> is indeed when the story goes live
[17:03:44] <Phoenix666> ok
[17:03:50] <n1> and as far as i am aware
[17:03:54] <n1> the system works in UTC
[17:04:14] <n1> when you look at the stories page and edit a story, it's all done in UTC
[17:04:22] <n1> not whatever you have set in your preferences
[17:04:31] <Phoenix666> that control is pre-populated, so is that the system pre-selecting it for a spot in the queue?
[17:04:36] <n1> no
[17:04:42] <cmn32480> that time gets set automatically by the system for the next available time slot?
[17:04:50] <n1> it basically sets it about 20minutes ahead of 'now'
[17:04:58] <cmn32480> he just types faster then me...
[17:05:03] <n1> which is why unchecking display is important
[17:05:09] <n1> if you're saving/editing for a whie
[17:05:11] <n1> while*
[17:05:13] <n1> without changing the time
[17:05:16] <Phoenix666> ok
[17:05:35] <n1> i think both janrinok|afk and myself set the time on the article and save it before doing anything else
[17:05:38] <n1> rather than not displaying
[17:05:39] <cmn32480> so then we set it for the next slot after looking at the queue
[17:05:54] <n1> yeah, look at the queue and work out the next slot
[17:06:24] <Phoenix666> so, that's a manual check of the story queue and picking live time for 1 hr later after the last one?
[17:06:26] <n1> from about 01:00 UTC 10:00 UTC the gaps between stories run a little longer if submissions are low
[17:06:37] <n1> 1hr is ideal, but usually it's 90minutes
[17:06:47] <Phoenix666> ok
[17:07:01] <n1> over the weekend and night (east coast US) it can be 2-3hrs
[17:07:02] <Phoenix666> but that's good if there's breaking news, so you can put it ahead of another
[17:07:09] <n1> weekends are very slow for submissions
[17:07:11] <n1> yes
[17:07:15] <n1> breaking news jumps the queue
[17:07:47] <n1> i try to keep in mind the stories that have come before the one im working on
[17:07:52] <n1> to keep a spread of topics
[17:08:24] <n1> if there's a political one for example, would try and make sure the next 2 or 3 are very tech or science focused
[17:08:31] <Phoenix666> right, but that's notional, isn't it? i didn't see anything specific in the wiki like, "90% tech, 5% health, 5% clickbait" :)
[17:08:41] <n1> yes
[17:08:49] <n1> whatever you feel is right
[17:08:58] <n1> it is subjective
[17:09:21] <n1> but on the other side, running 3 science or space stories in a row, will probably not generate much discussion
[17:09:46] <Phoenix666> that's a good time to throw in a systemd post, right?
[17:09:48] <n1> and means several hours of new stories have been of little or no interest to a lot of people
[17:09:50] <n1> heh
[17:09:54] <n1> no opinion
[17:09:56] <n1> ;)
[17:09:56] <cmn32480> so in order to keep discussion lively, make sure we are spreading ourselves around a bit
[17:10:11] <n1> cmn32480, that might just be my theory
[17:10:15] <n1> but thats what i try to keep in mind
[17:10:34] <n1> i dont edit the site on what is interesting to me
[17:10:39] <n1> i try and make sure it's interesting for everyone
[17:10:46] <Phoenix666> sure
[17:10:55] <cmn32480> absolutely
[17:11:02] <Phoenix666> i've picked up several times that weekends are slow for submissions
[17:11:06] <mrcoolbp> guys: here's an example of my editing graphix. Is this helpful? (i'm still working on it) http://imgur.com
[17:11:06] <NetCraft> ^ 03Imgur
[17:11:36] <n1> editors dont get delete btw
[17:11:42] <Phoenix666> mrcoolbp: yeah, that's perfect
[17:11:48] <mrcoolbp> oh n1: okay I'll remove that
[17:11:50] <cmn32480> very nice
[17:12:14] <Phoenix666> who does have 'delete' so we can ping them if we make a mistake?
[17:12:14] <cmn32480> at leat it wasn't a goatse link
[17:12:19] <Phoenix666> haha
[17:12:24] <n1> Phoenix666, we generally dont delete things
[17:12:28] <n1> i'll get to that a bit later
[17:12:58] <n1> the headline guide on the wiki is enough, dont think i need to explain anything there?
[17:13:13] <Phoenix666> no, that's straightforward
[17:13:18] <n1> and the dept stuff is simple, "the" and "dept." you dont include
[17:13:26] <cmn32480> pretty clear
[17:13:33] <n1> just-do-this-bit
[17:14:49] <n1> changing the author or changing comments enabled isn't something you'd normally have to do. comments are disabled automatically after a certain period of time on articles
[17:14:55] <n1> i forget how long they're enabled for
[17:15:52] <Phoenix666> out of curiosity, now that i'm looking at this from the inside out, why no pics with article submissions?
[17:16:31] <n1> well, personally i just dont think they add anything 9/10 times, more clutter
[17:16:50] <n1> but we have played with trying to add pics before, and i can't remember why it's not possibe
[17:16:53] <n1> possible*
[17:16:54] <mrcoolbp> (you could always uncheck display in liu of deletion)
[17:17:30] <n1> unchecking display is indeed the normal way we do it, instead of the deletion
[17:17:31] <Phoenix666> i'm curious because they're universal among commercial media, and they wouldn't waste the ink if they didn't matter
[17:17:37] <mrcoolbp> n1: you can type text with spaces and they: are-replaced-with-hyphens BTW
[17:17:55] <n1> that's just cheating
[17:18:13] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: we don't have that funcionality working right now
[17:18:21] <mrcoolbp> was broken when we got it
[17:18:25] <n1> as i said, we did play with it at some point but yeah
[17:18:30] <n1> didnt resolve whatever issues
[17:18:32] <mrcoolbp> yeah, not sure the status
[17:18:33] <Phoenix666> mrcoolbp: ok, like i said just curious
[17:18:45] <n1> we will have the power eventually
[17:18:52] <n1> but i dont think there's big demand for it
[17:19:05] <n1> out of all the comments ive seen, dont recall any asking for pics to be included in tfs
[17:19:38] <Phoenix666> well, we're all coming from slashdot, which didn't have them, and that's partly because it started when bandwidth was limited and pics slowed page loads
[17:19:39] <n1> so the "media" box isn't to be used for anything right now
[17:20:25] <n1> if it's a long submision/summary, find a good place and move the rest of it into extended copy
[17:20:36] <n1> anything in extended copy wont display on the main page
[17:20:47] <Phoenix666> ok, that's under "read more," right?
[17:20:56] <n1> yeah
[17:21:09] <n1> there's no real rule on when it's used
[17:21:28] <n1> sometimes i'd want to but there's no good place to make the break
[17:21:41] <cmn32480> So it is a subjective "when tfs looks too long"?
[17:21:48] <n1> yeah, pretty much
[17:23:52] <n1> i missed a call and now people are here
[17:23:52] <Phoenix666> the stuff at the bottom is the changelog on this submission?
[17:23:54] <n1> i'll be a minute
[17:23:57] <Phoenix666> np
[17:25:33] <Phoenix666> afk5
[17:25:34] <cmn32480> Phoenix666 - I think it is actually the people who have dev or editor logins and what story they are looking at.
[17:26:09] <n1> yeah, the bottom stuff are people who have higher user levels on the site
[17:26:17] <n1> you can see what stories they are looking at
[17:26:20] <n1> if theyre signed in
[17:27:24] <cmn32480> first thing I got right all day....
[17:28:11] <n1> i have to make a call, it's that damn dogs fault i missed it
[17:28:23] <cmn32480> no worries
[17:28:24] <n1> should be back in 10
[17:28:34] <mrcoolbp> I'm still here
[17:29:23] <mrcoolbp> any questions so far guys?
[17:30:25] <Phoenix666> i'm good so far. what's the safest place for us to start, to login, check the story queue for red items to give them a 2nd read, to submit more stuff to the queue, or do the first read when one of you guys is around to do the 2nd?
[17:31:12] <mrcoolbp> Pheonix666: once your granted privs on production you can jump in however you feel comfortable. Checking "red" items is a good place to start.
[17:31:32] <mrcoolbp> Once you are finished "training" we'll ask that you go on dev and actually edit a few stories and post them to dev
[17:32:01] <mrcoolbp> once you are happy with 2-3 stories, we'll point LaminatorX to your stories so he can approve you. Then we grant privs on production.
[17:32:34] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand is working on this now, and I'm going to go pop over and check his stories
[17:32:37] <mrcoolbp> BRB!
[17:32:43] <Phoenix666> OK. time check: i have to run in 10 mins to collect my kids from school
[17:33:50] <mrcoolbp> Phoenix666: okay any other questions before you go? are you nearly ready to edit some stories?
[17:33:59] * mrcoolbp is trying to follow while multitasking
[17:34:20] <n1> thats the main functionality covered really
[17:34:37] <Phoenix666> i think i'm ready to edit some stories on dev. i'll do that when i'm done with the munchikins and ping you guys here on IRC to take a look. does that work?
[17:34:46] <n1> sounds good to me Phoenix666
[17:35:04] <Phoenix666> cool, thanks n1, mrcoolbp for taking the time to show us the ropes!
[17:35:08] <n1> at this point, if ive been vaguely helpful should be pretty much there
[17:35:18] <n1> only way now is to do it
[17:35:28] <cmn32480> I think I am in the same spot, but I will not be able to get back until this evening. Silly job getting in the way
[17:35:34] <n1> can cover merging stories another day
[17:35:45] <Phoenix666> that sounds like a good follow-up
[17:35:53] <mrcoolbp> Guys, no problem or rush, just send me an email and/or ping me here when you are ready
[17:35:58] <Phoenix666> catch you guys later!
[17:35:59] <mrcoolbp> mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org
[17:36:04] <mrcoolbp> later Phoenix666
[17:36:07] -!- Phoenix666 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:36:47] <cmn32480> Appreciate the time gents. Hopefully we can help make this a little less taxing on individuals.
[17:37:07] <n1> thanks cmn32480, welcome to #editorial
[17:37:16] -!- cmn32480 [cmn32480!~17186141@23.24.kp.ip] has parted #editorial
[17:37:34] <n1> scared 'em off again
[17:37:38] <mrcoolbp> you do that
[17:37:43] <n1> yup
[17:38:01] <mrcoolbp> no worries, I have hendrickboom on the line via email. I needa respond and help him get into IRC
[17:38:03] <n1> my 'training' make sense to you, mrcoolbp?
[17:38:42] <mrcoolbp> I didn't read the whole thing, working on the grfx still, but you seemed to be hitting important parts
[17:39:08] <mrcoolbp> they have all the documentation, the "training" is about showing them where these things are and talking them through it. Nice work bro
[17:39:24] <n1> figured i might as well give it a shot, have to learn sometime!
[17:47:03] <mrcoolbp> good on ya.
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[17:53:48] <NotSanguine> Hey MrCoolbp
[17:54:07] <NotSanguine> Still need editor candidates?
[17:54:24] <mrcoolbp> Hey NotSanguine, I finally caught ya
[17:54:31] <NotSanguine> shh!
[17:54:34] <mrcoolbp> hehe
[17:54:38] <NotSanguine> don't tell anyone
[17:54:46] <mrcoolbp> yeah we are training up a storm of new editors today
[17:54:54] <mrcoolbp> you're next in line!
[17:55:23] <NotSanguine> I'm a little hesitant, as my comments tend to polarize folks
[17:55:47] <mrcoolbp> okay so here's the thing, you need to be aware of that and try to tone that down
[17:55:48] <NotSanguine> And I don't want to negatively affect posted articles with the perception other have of me
[17:56:01] <mrcoolbp> the goal of an editor is to present an unbiased point of view
[17:56:12] <mrcoolbp> this is not easy in practice and requires restraint
[17:56:15] <n1> edit the submissions, dont inject your own opinion into it
[17:56:23] <NotSanguine> Absolutely. I'm talking about my comments, not any personal agenda in editorial
[17:56:39] <n1> if you're going to add to a story use information and quotes as presented in TFA
[17:56:47] <n1> comments are comments
[17:56:52] <NotSanguine> IOkay.
[17:57:07] <NotSanguine> I just don't want to alienate folks based on my username.
[17:57:09] <n1> we can all be polarizing, but being honest i think is a good policy
[17:57:14] <mrcoolbp> Yeah, you are still allowed to comment buddy, look at TheMightyBuzzard
[17:57:19] <n1> but it shouldnt affect your editing
[17:57:25] <mrcoolbp> he has a disclaimer in his sig = )
[17:57:32] <NotSanguine> I know. He's the reason I came here today
[17:58:00] <NotSanguine> I figure that if he can do it successfully, then I could too
[17:58:17] <NotSanguine> So. How should I get started?
[17:58:25] <mrcoolbp> okay, first you needa read the docs
[17:58:47] <NotSanguine> I assume that you'll just give me all the admin passwords right away and I can start planning revolution? :)
[17:58:55] <mrcoolbp> right..
[17:59:10] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: have you read the editorial docs yet?
[17:59:47] -!- NotSanguine has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
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[18:00:05] <NotSanguine> Sorry. the page hung
[18:00:12] <mrcoolbp> no prob
[18:00:18] <NotSanguine> I assume you mean these docs?
[18:00:19] <NotSanguine> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[18:00:20] <NetCraft> ^ 03Wiki: Editors
[18:00:23] <mrcoolbp> yes
[18:00:30] <mrcoolbp> specifically the http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[18:00:30] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[18:00:38] <mrcoolbp> but they are all important
[18:00:43] <NotSanguine> I started looking at them.
[18:00:55] <NotSanguine> I'll continue and then come back?
[18:01:11] <mrcoolbp> okay, I suggest a thorough read-through of all of them eventually, but start with the EditingProcess and come back and ping me
[18:01:27] <NotSanguine> Roger wilco. Check you later
[18:01:27] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: once you do that, I can give you the editor privs on dev and we can play around
[18:01:39] <NotSanguine> Cool beans
[18:01:39] <mrcoolbp> cool man, let me know if you have questions
[18:03:02] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: I'm also working on some graphics to explain the editor interface so they may help as you read (I am not done yet)
[18:03:07] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: http://i.imgur.com
[18:03:24] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: http://imgur.com
[18:03:24] <NetCraft> " 03Imgur
[18:04:22] <mrcoolbp> phew, busy day so far eh n1 ?
[18:04:46] <n1> yeah, amazing really
[18:04:48] <mrcoolbp> n1: I needa lunch me up something good, can you hold down the fort for 20 min or so?
[18:04:59] <mrcoolbp> should really go get a haircut too...
[18:05:01] <n1> yeah, im here for another hour or so
[18:05:22] <n1> 1h30m and i'll be heading out for a few hours
[18:05:31] <n1> enjoy your lunch
[18:05:47] <mrcoolbp> okay perfect, thanks
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[18:27:44] <NotSanguine> Hey MrCoolbp. I read through the Editorial Team documents, with special attention to the "editing process" doc
[18:28:28] <NotSanguine> ./ping @mrcoolbp
[18:28:36] <NotSanguine> guess not
[18:28:42] <n1> he is out at the minute
[18:28:47] <NotSanguine> No worries
[18:28:48] <n1> getting some lunch and a haircut
[18:28:56] <NotSanguine> The nerve!
[18:28:57] <NotSanguine> :)
[18:29:24] <janrinok|afk> back to post a few more stories
[18:29:28] <NotSanguine> I'll check back in a bit.
[18:29:29] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[18:29:36] <n1> hi janrinok
[18:29:40] <janrinok> hi nick
[18:29:49] <n1> how are you doing today?
[18:30:16] <janrinok> well, quite surprised at the response to the story. But OK in the main :)
[18:30:58] <n1> as you may have seen above, i've given cmn32480 and phoenix666 a bit of an intro
[18:31:07] <janrinok> yeah, congrats
[18:31:11] <n1> they're about ready to start doing some test stories on dev
[18:31:37] <janrinok> they can join CoolHand who will be on there later this evening I believe
[18:31:38] <n1> there are some things they dont know yet, but tried to cover as much as i could
[18:31:48] <janrinok> I always forget something
[18:32:04] <n1> biggest one would be about not refreshing the stories page after saving
[18:32:21] <janrinok> No, I remembered that one this time
[18:32:31] <n1> thats what i forgot to tell the other two
[18:32:37] <n1> as a thing they really do need to know
[18:32:47] <janrinok> well, they will learn on dev where it is safe...
[18:32:49] <n1> other stuff can be covered as and when, i'd think
[18:32:50] <n1> yeah
[18:33:02] <janrinok> how about you, any plans for this w/e?
[18:33:28] <n1> i am out for dinner this evening, but should be back for some editing tonight
[18:33:31] <n1> and then the weekend
[18:33:35] <n1> just relax really
[18:33:40] <n1> ive had a rough week with sleep
[18:33:45] <n1> so im very tired
[18:34:00] <janrinok> I'm trying to get ahead with the stories, but I'm suffering with poor sleep much the same as yourself
[18:34:38] <n1> i dont like being this far ahead really, but maybe we should try to keep it like this
[18:34:51] <n1> but be more inclined to move the order around
[18:35:27] <janrinok> it is worth a try, but I'm not yet comfortable with it. Still, there is room to insert any quick news items that might pop up
[18:35:47] <n1> thats what im thinking, it's good to have a real buffer
[18:35:55] <n1> but be more aware of time sensitive stories
[18:36:05] <n1> and move things around as events unfold
[18:36:15] <janrinok> exactly
[18:37:06] <n1> thats the only way im comfortably with it, otherwise we will always be slow to report and things could get stale
[18:37:29] <n1> full credit to laminatorx though for being a man on a mission. he dropped in last night
[18:38:01] <janrinok> I sent him an email explaining that my story wasn't directed at him - no acknowledgement yet
[18:38:23] <n1> he seems good, happy to get new people interested
[18:38:48] <CoolHand> janrinok: mrcoolbp had me sumbit a "ready to publish" story that he was going to look over and submit to LamX when he got back
[18:38:55] <janrinok> I was a bit concerned that he thought I was critising him personally
[18:38:57] <n1> still got a lot going on with work and such
[18:39:03] <CoolHand> s/sumbit/submit
[18:39:06] <n1> but he's fine, i dont think he took it the wrong way
[18:39:10] <janrinok> CoolHand: good, any problems?
[18:39:20] <n1> he feels the same, from his comments
[18:39:28] <CoolHand> janrinok: not of which I'm aware.. :)
[18:39:35] <janrinok> after this week, I'm hardly surprised!
[18:39:48] <n1> CoolHand, story on dev?
[18:40:26] <janrinok> Energy Drinks?
[18:40:55] <CoolHand> janrinok: y
[18:41:59] <n1> i would change the source link to: http://www.sciencedaily.com
[18:42:00] <NetCraft> ^ 03Energy drinks raise resting blood pressure, with effect most dramatic in those not used to caffeine -- ScienceDaily
[18:42:35] <n1> and put a . at the end of the linked text because it's not the headline now, in tfs context
[18:42:57] <n1> otherwise, it looks great
[18:43:14] <CoolHand> n1 will do
[18:43:20] <janrinok> I can offer a few tips - the original source of the story was mayo clinic and there is a small link at the bottom of the link you gave to the original. However, in this instance it doesn't give anything new.
[18:43:33] <janrinok> so don't change it for this story
[18:44:42] <CoolHand> janrinok: ok.. I looked for a link to the mayo studo - didn't see it..
[18:45:06] <CoolHand> found it now :)
[18:45:15] <n1> can take or leave that really
[18:45:19] <janrinok> I would add the paragraph beginning 'In the study...' - but that is just my feeling for it. It isn't right or wrong
[18:45:38] <n1> if the source supplied in the submissions is 'ok' i'd normally leave it
[18:46:12] <n1> even if there is a different original source, they're not hiding where it came from
[18:46:19] <CoolHand> hmmm.. I had some extended copy in it.. it's disamappeared apparently
[18:46:29] <janrinok> CoolHand: no 2 editors will ever do the job exactly the same way - which is why a larger team of editors can up the quality of the output
[18:47:51] <n1> i do it right, everyone else does it wrong
[18:50:09] <janrinok> lol - I was a bit slow there. Cactus has also volunteered to help us out
[18:50:40] <janrinok> just pushing the relevant emails to mrcoolbp and LamX
[18:51:11] <CoolHand> I put my "extended copy" back in... b/c I feel like hotdog'ing it.. :)
[18:51:51] * n1 checks his super-secret sn email to make sure no one made that mistake
[18:52:21] <janrinok> still not seen - n1, do we have cache delays on dev?
[18:52:36] <janrinok> yep, its there now
[18:52:54] <n1> i see it
[18:53:02] <n1> personally would include who the quote came from
[18:53:16] <CoolHand> n1: talking to me?
[18:53:16] <janrinok> I don't recall delays on dev before, but perhaps I just haven't noticed
[18:53:34] <n1> CoolHand, yeah
[18:53:52] <n1> "We know that energy drink consumption is widespread and rising among young people. Concerns about the health safety of energy drinks have been raised. We and others have previously shown that energy drinks increase blood pressure," says lead author Anna Svatikova, M.D., Ph.D., cardiovascular diseases fellow at the Mayo Clinic.
[18:54:01] <janrinok> agreed
[18:54:31] <CoolHand> already updated
[18:54:42] <CoolHand> slightly different than that
[18:55:09] <CoolHand> mine ok?
[18:55:11] <janrinok> I could live with that ;)
[18:56:24] <n1> thats cool
[18:56:29] <n1> CoolHand++
[18:56:29] <Bender> karma - coolhand: 1
[18:57:18] <janrinok> I'm into Sundays stories now, but I will have to afk for quite a while.
[18:57:48] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[18:58:10] <n1> i'm here for 30mins before going out for dinner
[18:58:21] <janrinok|afk> enjoy - and eat well!
[18:58:38] <n1> thanks :)
[18:58:44] <n1> take care,janrinok|afk
[19:04:54] <n1> CoolHand, that story is complete as far as i can see
[19:05:00] <n1> it's ready to be siged off with no more editing needed
[19:05:05] <n1> signed*
[19:05:27] <CoolHand> n1: ok. thx.
[19:06:44] <n1> welcome to the team :)
[19:08:26] <CoolHand> thank you sir
[19:10:11] -!- hendrik3 [hendrik3!~hendrik@gvpan.pooq.com] has joined #editorial
[19:11:28] <n1> hi there, hendrik3
[19:12:10] <hendrik3> I'm here now. Anyone want to tell me how to start?
[19:12:32] <n1> i think you've been in email communication with mrcoolbp?
[19:12:50] <hendrik3> Yes.
[19:13:15] <n1> he should be back soon, popped out to lunch a while ago
[19:13:32] <n1> i assume he linked you to the wiki pages for editorial?
[19:13:52] <hendrik3> OK. I'll just stay connected and look at the chat window now and then.
[19:14:50] <n1> ok, great. thanks for coming by :)
[19:15:34] <hendrik3> I've found http://wiki.soylentnews.org and skimmed though it. It looks like it'll lmke more sense when I' actually editing.
[19:15:34] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[19:15:54] <hendrik3> Yes, that's what I found.
[19:16:58] <n1> i understand, doing is the best way to learn
[19:17:06] <mrcoolbp> n1: back
[19:17:13] <mrcoolbp> hi hendrik3
[19:17:17] <n1> wb mrcoolbp
[19:17:22] <mrcoolbp> thanks
[19:17:32] <n1> going for dinner now, so he's all yours!
[19:17:47] <mrcoolbp> okay, thanks buddy
[19:17:54] <hendrik3> hi.
[19:18:04] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: welcome to iric
[19:18:06] <mrcoolbp> irc
[19:18:23] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: did ya get to read the Editor documentation yet?
[19:19:47] <hendrik3> I've skimmed through http://wiki.soylentnews.org and am starting an actual read-through. I think it will make more sense once I actually start editing, but I am proceeding with a more detailed reading now.
[19:19:48] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[19:20:39] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: in the meantime I'll set your account up with privs on dev.soylentnews.org for editing stories, you can jump in and we can start getting into the nitty gritty
[19:22:14] <hendrik3> OK. My user name on soylentnews is hendrikboom.
[19:22:46] <mrcoolbp> yup, I know = )
[19:23:03] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: the energy drink story looks good
[19:23:58] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: coolio
[19:24:12] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: the blackhole story is still showing all 3 (virtually) dupe paragraphs
[19:24:21] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: did ya click update?
[19:25:26] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: no... I didn't know I was supposed to fix that.. I just worked on the energy one.. if you want me to get blackhole ready for publishing, I'd just delete those extras. I just created them as placeholders to practice the extended section
[19:25:57] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: would be nice to show him 2 stories
[19:26:15] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: ok, will do
[19:26:23] <mrcoolbp> I aim for 2-3 stories to show EiC for approval. Thanks CoolHand
[19:26:33] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: ping
[19:26:44] <NotSanguine> hey
[19:26:52] <NotSanguine> I read through the docs
[19:27:06] -!- Tachyon [Tachyon!~Tachyon@xuco.me] has joined #editorial
[19:27:06] <mrcoolbp> excellent, I'll get you some editor bits on dev
[19:27:24] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: ok done
[19:27:27] <NotSanguine> cool.
[19:27:39] <NotSanguine> Just login to dev?
[19:27:43] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: that was quick = )
[19:27:55] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: yeah, you will see the admin toolbar at the top now
[19:28:07] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3 same ^
[19:28:22] <NotSanguine> I'll check it out
[19:28:51] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: that would be cool if Cactus came back, he mentioned he would at some point but I haven't seen him = (
[19:29:18] <NotSanguine> gotcha.
[19:29:24] <mrcoolbp> janrinok|afk ^^
[19:29:36] <NotSanguine> should I pick a submission and rock and roll?
[19:29:42] <hendrik3> brb
[19:29:51] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: basically, I can talk you through it if you want
[19:30:17] <NotSanguine> Do you have a preference for which submission?
[19:30:21] <mrcoolbp> lemme look
[19:31:00] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: New Evidence Emerges of Wage-Fixing by DreamWorks, Pixar and Blue Sky | Cartoon Brew
[19:31:05] <mrcoolbp> that looks like a fun one
[19:31:28] <mrcoolbp> this is an example of a submission that we are going to need to flesh out before we can "publish"
[19:31:53] <NotSanguine> okay
[19:32:20] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: Un-check the "display" checkbox and see how far you can get,
[19:32:31] <mrcoolbp> I can answer questions as they come up
[19:32:39] <mrcoolbp> I'll go over a few things breifly if you like
[19:33:06] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: we should probably change "Crutchy" to link to his userpage
[19:33:25] <mrcoolbp> normally this is done automagically, but in this case, this submission was piped in from his IRC bot
[19:33:52] <mrcoolbp> (NotSanguine: you'll need to do the same) ^
[19:34:38] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: when you click on the submission, you are taken to a preliminary page. Click "Preview" before you do much of anything to get in to the editing panel
[19:34:43] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: done
[19:34:52] <NotSanguine> Okay.
[19:34:55] <hendrik3> OK. Logged into http://dev.soylentnews.org. Should it have been https?
[19:34:56] <NetCraft> ^ 03Dev.SN: Dev.SN is dead developers
[19:35:32] <hendrik3> I see a page that's laid out muche like the usual article page, except that all the articles are outlined in pink.
[19:35:33] <mrcoolbp> okay, now CoolHand, I tend to prefer when the links are wrapped into the text (instead of the full URL) I think it looks cleaner
[19:36:02] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: you may want to change the dev theme (Prefereces->Homepage)
[19:36:21] <mrcoolbp> TheMightyBuzzard has trolled us with his omgpwnies theme = )
[19:36:59] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: there are exceptions to this rule, but in general, we tend to linkify the words yaknow?
[19:37:12] <mrcoolbp> (on blackhole story)
[19:37:41] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: yeah.. I hear ya.. although on shorter submissions I personally prefer it separate.. (but I'm willing to follow other's general style guidelines)
[19:37:58] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: you want me to change it?
[19:38:06] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: it's fine, just thought I'd mention it, you did it in the energy drink story I think
[19:38:11] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: yes
[19:38:36] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: if we are all happy I'll inform LaminatorX and we play the waiting game until he can find some time to review
[19:39:11] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: let's go ahead and release those stories, one for 1 hour ago, and one for in 10 minutes
[19:39:13] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: I'm happy... I'll be off here soon until at least later this evening (if I can escape the wife for awhile)
[19:39:45] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: no worries, I have to run off in 4 hours as well, not sure when LaminatorX will be able to check them
[19:39:52] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: release as in "display?"
[19:39:56] <mrcoolbp> yup
[19:40:12] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: did ya change the theme?
[19:42:10] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: times update and display on
[19:42:27] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: once you are in the editor panel, I can explain the various features that we commonly use
[19:42:34] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: okay looking now
[19:43:27] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: yup looks good, the energy drink story will auto-appear in 8 minutes on dev mainpage now
[19:43:40] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: yep
[19:43:43] <mrcoolbp> I'll forward to LamX so he can check them out
[19:43:51] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: thank you sir
[19:44:18] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: no problem. I don't have your SN email box yet, though I expect it later today, Is it okay if I email you on your address in your SN account?
[19:44:35] <CoolHand> is that inlinuxdude@gmail.com? if so, yes
[19:44:55] <mrcoolbp> yupper
[19:45:39] <mrcoolbp> cool, well until we hear from lamx, you aren't really and editor yet, but if we see juggs, we can get you some IRC stuff setup, I'll send you and email soon with a little more information too
[19:46:18] <CoolHand> mrcoolbp: k
[19:46:28] <hendrik3> Yes, it's now in night mode.
[19:47:44] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3, NotSanguine: okay let's jump in and check out the editor panel (I'm assuming NotSanguine is already doing this)
[19:47:56] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: go to "Submissions" at the top of the page
[19:49:18] <hendrik3> A page with Submissions Adminn, lots of empty slots, and one filled in as test from janrinok
[19:49:30] <mrcoolbp> yes
[19:49:33] <mrcoolbp> click on "PolarSSL is now a part of ARM - Tech Updates"
[19:49:37] <NotSanguine> Mrcoolbp: So, once I'm ready, click save?
[19:49:49] <mrcoolbp> hold up NotSanguine
[19:50:00] <NotSanguine> no worries
[19:50:08] <mrcoolbp> so you made it to the editing panel and made some edits and previewed them I assume?
[19:50:31] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine ^
[19:50:33] <NotSanguine> preview first,?
[19:50:34] <NotSanguine> oksy
[19:50:51] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: also UNcheck "Display" if you didn't do that already
[19:51:09] <mrcoolbp> this will keep the story from appearing to the public
[19:51:45] <NotSanguine> I did
[19:51:47] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3 after you click on "PolarSSL is now a part of ARM - Tech Updates" you will be taken to a preliminary preview of the story
[19:51:56] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: okay go ahead and click save
[19:52:24] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: good practice is to uncheck display immediately and click save, that way if your browser crashed or something, your work is saved
[19:52:44] <NotSanguine> Okay. Will do
[19:52:47] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: you want to go ahead and click "preview" to take you into the full Editor
[19:53:19] <NotSanguine> I had a quick & dirty go at it, thinking that your feeback would help with polish
[19:53:23] * mrcoolbp checks NotSanguine's work
[19:53:47] <hendrik3> Polarssl is not part of ARM, and a link. I have no idea what PolaraSSL is.
[19:54:01] <hendrik3> Follow link -- a page of corporate PR text.
[19:54:49] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: looks pretty good, I would say the CamelCase isn't necessary on the ".Com" but not bad for your first story
[19:54:54] <hendrik3> Google PolarSSL - it seems to be a library. Since it's now part of ARM, I presume it's another company, or a product, maybe taken over by ARM? or licensed to them? or what?
[19:55:51] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3 this is the thing with editing stories, sometimes you have to do a little research, in this case it may have been a story that you or I passed on because we weren't familiar with the subject material
[19:56:53] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: this might benefit from searching for more sources so we can expand on the SN summary
[19:57:04] <mrcoolbp> I'm not sure, I kinda just picked a "submission"
[19:57:19] <NotSanguine> thanks, mrcoolbp. Shall I do another one or is there still polish to be put on this article?
[19:58:22] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: only other thing I see is the the "dept" has capital letters, we tend to do all lowercase (and I thought it forced that to be honest)
[19:59:02] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: also "Crutchy writes in with a story the ongoing" you are missing an "on" in there methinks = )
[19:59:15] CoolHand is now known as CoolHand|away
[20:00:39] <NotSanguine> Thanks, I'll proof it again
[20:02:27] <NotSanguine> mrcoolbp: I'm thinking that maybe providing a little background on the litigation (although that is covered in the main link) might be good in TFS. Or am I getting too fancy?
[20:03:10] <hendrik3> Will continue to google.
[20:03:16] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: concise expansion on a story is always welcome. I don't expect editors to reseach for hours and write full articles, but providing an informative and balanced perspective is quite important
[20:03:35] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: if you are finding nothing we can move on and I can grab another submission we can work on
[20:04:42] <NotSanguine> How do I dig up a link to the user's page? or is it always just https://www.soylntnews.org ?
[20:04:50] * mrcoolbp has been coordinating new recruits for 7 hours already
[20:04:56] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine yes
[20:05:10] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: no www needed though
[20:07:22] <hendrik3> Looks as if ARM took over a company whose product is called PolarSSL, which is a dual licenced library that does SSL. IN the course of the takeover, PolrSSL ha been given a new name. There is a security bug in the library, dus to be fixed in the 1.3.10 release under the new name. Github already shows some patches, but it's not clear to me whether they are already in.
[20:07:30] <hendrik3> OK. That;s what I found.
[20:08:04] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: sounds like a scoop
[20:08:06] <hendrik3> It looks as if 'editinng' is more like being a reporter following tips.
[20:08:28] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: not always, we often get really good submissions that just need link-checking
[20:08:36] <mrcoolbp> you got the hard one = )
[20:08:43] <hendrik3> So I should write it up like this with more details, and, of course, the links I usedd?
[20:10:05] <mrcoolbp> sounds like a plan
[20:10:33] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: are you in the full editor panel? (did you click "preview" after clicking on the submission title?)
[20:12:41] <hendrik3> Yes. I have a page that contains a panel titled "Intro Copy" with some HTML, Save and preview buttons, and a warning that i need to save the story before I can upload files to it.
[20:13:02] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: once you are in the full editing panel make sure "display" is unchecked and anything we do won't go out to dev.sn main page
[20:13:04] <hendrik3> There's also an 'extended copy' panel, which is empty.
[20:13:18] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: okay, we aren't using the file-upload currently
[20:13:51] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: "extended copy" is for "Read past the break" stuff. It's the "second half" of an article (if it's longer then 1-3 paragraphs)
[20:13:55] <hendrik3> 'Displat' is now unchecked. It wasn't.
[20:14:13] <hendrik3> Display, not Displat, of course.
[20:14:19] <mrcoolbp> naturally = )
[20:14:35] <mrcoolbp> you can click save and the story will turn "grey" in the stories list
[20:14:56] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine, Hendrik3: pop over to the stories list and take a gander
[20:15:12] <mrcoolbp> you will notice a bunch of weird test stories as this is our test server
[20:15:24] <NotSanguine> mrcoolbp: I'm happy with the article now. Should I be?
[20:15:37] <mrcoolbp> But notice the times are in UTC, it's best to keep a UTC clock sitting around somewhere to help you convert
[20:16:07] <mrcoolbp> We try to run stories every 90-120 minutes, sometimes longer if we don't have a lot of submissions
[20:16:31] <mrcoolbp> You will need to edit in a time for your story (in UTC 24 hour format) when you are done editing a story
[20:16:37] <hendrik3> Presumably I do that after I've rewritten it in the Intro Copy panel.
[20:16:54] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: yes, sorry I'm jumping around a bit
[20:17:10] <NotSanguine> I have two copies in the story list. I should delete one, yes?
[20:17:18] <mrcoolbp> I'd go back and read through any of the docs you skimmed through after doing these excersises, now that you know what they are talking about
[20:17:36] <hendrik3> The story list, that's in the right sidebar, where they have grey, green, and light red backgrounds?
[20:17:58] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: yes, also "Stories" at the top of the page will take you to a seperate page
[20:18:10] <hendrik3> Do I have to do something to claim the story so as to avoid simultaneous editing?
[20:18:27] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: I don't think you can delete stories, but if you manage to get two copies in there, make sure you uncheck display ( and get one of us admin types to delete one if ya like)
[20:18:34] <mrcoolbp> I can do that for you now
[20:19:11] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: well two things, one this is one of the reasons we use IRC. This channel is for discussions like that or "should I run this story?" etc.
[20:19:40] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: number 2. if you all scroll to the bottom of either the stories list or the editing panel you can see who is editing what story
[20:19:46] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: ^
[20:19:52] <mrcoolbp> phew
[20:20:08] <mrcoolbp> man I'm know I'm missing some key stuff here...
[20:20:10] <mrcoolbp> let's see
[20:20:51] <NotSanguine> Both have display unchecked, should I enable display for the correct story? Or are we not there yet?
[20:21:03] <mrcoolbp> If a story is "Breaking" one is encouraged to get it out sooner rather then later. You could use the "Fastforward" checkbox to release it immediately in this case (but note that no one will be able to double check it if you do that = )
[20:21:12] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: lemme take a look
[20:22:33] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: still don't need the "quotes" around "crutchy", as I said it's kind of a weird submission as crutchy piped these directly from IRC
[20:23:01] <hendrik3> I found the PolarSSL entry on the sidebar, but when I follow the 'Stories" link, it doesn't appear there.
[20:23:12] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: I'd say you could send it out for display though, set it to release in 5 minutes from now
[20:23:25] <hendrik3> Ah. But it is there on another panel, attached to my name.
[20:23:48] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: it looks like we never saved it then
[20:23:54] <mrcoolbp> uncheck display and click save
[20:24:10] <mrcoolbp> it should appear in the stories list after a browser refresh once you've saved it
[20:24:20] <hendrik3> Uncheck display and save *after* I've edited it, right?
[20:24:46] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: best practice is as soon as you are in the editing panel, you can uncheck display and click save
[20:25:18] <mrcoolbp> if you are sure you want to tackle the submission, this will pull it out of the submissions list and throw it in the stories list
[20:25:29] <hendrik3> Is that incase the browser crashes or something? I save even before editing?
[20:25:37] <mrcoolbp> kind of yeah
[20:25:47] <hendrik3> What does 'save' do? Apprently it changes the status of the story somehow.
[20:25:53] <mrcoolbp> I use preview a lot, but I often copy the text out into a text editor
[20:26:13] <hendrik3> Yeaah. I'll try the editing and submission.
[20:26:22] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: save will throw it in to the story list, then save becomes "update" for future "saves"
[20:26:43] <hendrik3> Let me start writing instead of chatting for a while. *After* I uncheck display and save.
[20:27:05] <NotSanguine> k,. Done.
[20:27:20] <mrcoolbp> cool, let me know if you have questions hendrik3
[20:27:22] <hendrik3> Oh. 'display' already unchecked. Just save.
[20:27:38] <NotSanguine> Should release in 2-3 minutes
[20:27:42] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: let's try another story then. if there's nothing of interest I can grab one from production for you
[20:27:51] <NotSanguine> I'll take a look
[20:28:35] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: hold up
[20:29:18] <mrcoolbp> your story dissapeared
[20:30:17] <mrcoolbp> okay, I missed an important detail
[20:30:26] <NotSanguine> okay
[20:30:32] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3 and Notsanguine: so we need to mess with the topics now
[20:30:53] <mrcoolbp> both of you go into the editing panel for your stories
[20:31:22] <NotSanguine> mine appears to be set to nexus "Main Page" topic "News"
[20:31:50] <mrcoolbp> notsanguine: yeah weird caching issues on my end, you set the story to release 1 hour ago though = )
[20:31:58] <mrcoolbp> topic you setup correctly
[20:32:06] <NotSanguine> You're right, I did
[20:32:07] <NotSanguine> Oops
[20:32:09] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: did you figure out the topic situation?
[20:32:21] <NotSanguine> Should have been 20:30, not 1930
[20:32:22] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: converting to UTC is quite annoying
[20:32:46] <NotSanguine> Especially since it went from -4 to -5 last weekend. :(
[20:32:52] <mrcoolbp> yup
[20:33:32] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: see if there's anything worthwile in the submissions, if not let me know
[20:33:49] <NotSanguine> Just curious, shouldn't release time update after every edit?
[20:34:44] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: it automatically sets the release time for around 15 minutes from "now" when you first start working on the story, which is why we recommend unchecking display right away
[20:34:56] <hendrik3> I'm editing the text. Do I need to figure out the 'topic situation' already?
[20:34:57] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: it stays at whatever it's set at after that
[20:35:00] <hendrik3> What is it?
[20:35:26] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: it's how we decide which topic and which "nexus" the story is in
[20:35:28] <NotSanguine> Nothing jumps out at me on dev. Perhaps the one in prod about twitter banning revenge porn? It should be easy for me to edit. :)
[20:35:35] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: sorry, I'm jumping around again
[20:35:55] <hendrik3> I'll check back once I've written the story.
[20:36:00] <mrcoolbp> okay
[20:36:07] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: I can resubmit that to dev for you
[20:36:17] <NotSanguine> And it's not all that interesting either. Unless you think it will drive good conversation in prod?
[20:37:27] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: they can still run it on prod later, I re-submitted it for you to dev
[20:37:31] <NotSanguine> Thatr's something we haven't really talked about. the goal is to generate good discussion, rther than push buttons and be controversial, right?
[20:38:04] <NotSanguine> What criteria (other than hopefully goodf judgement) should we use for that?
[20:38:07] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: that sounds about right, our goal is not controversy, but intelligent discussion, and information
[20:38:34] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: that's hard to teach, most of the guiding language is in the docs you've already skimmed
[20:38:52] <mrcoolbp> Note: really informative articles don't get a lot of comments, and that's okay too
[20:39:11] <mrcoolbp> we don't aim for controversy, but generating a healthy discussion debate is also a good goal
[20:39:42] <mrcoolbp> We have to use our best judgement, but if you aren't sure about it, you can ping one of the other staff, there's usually at least one of us around
[20:40:17] <mrcoolbp> if you really aren't sure and there is no-one around, you can leave a note like you see
[20:40:33] <mrcoolbp> "test from janrinok" on the first story in the submission queueu
[20:41:40] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: goto submission queue and find "fudge ripple" you'll see "test" in the textbox on the left. change "test" to "testing" and click update at the bottom
[20:42:29] <mrcoolbp> that's a note to other editors, we use it for stuff like "save for weekend" or "attn admins, spam submission" or something
[20:43:04] <mrcoolbp> sory its says "Testy."
[20:43:07] <mrcoolbp> lol
[20:45:12] <mrcoolbp> I'm going to try to wrap up my "helpful story editing" graphics, ping me if you have a question
[20:49:32] <NotSanguine> mrcoolbp: ping
[20:49:37] <mrcoolbp> yo
[20:50:29] <NotSanguine> I "edited" the submission but I have a problem with the last sentence. It's definitely inappropriate, but I don't want to censor the submitter. Suggestions?
[20:51:07] <mrcoolbp> good question. let's take a look
[20:53:02] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: so that kind is getting close to flamebaity/contoversial/overly stylistic territory. We as editors have the power to censor these things, and in this case it seems appropriate. With a story like this we should probably try to be as professional as possible. I don't mind a little humor in the summary for a lighter piece, but this is kind of a heavy tone already.
[20:53:58] <NotSanguine> Sounds about right. The submitter appears to be trying to solicit comments from both sides.
[20:54:05] <mrcoolbp> I respect you not wanting to censor the submitter, but in this case I agree
[20:54:26] <NotSanguine> Do we take the latitude to *modify* rather than delete or add?
[20:54:31] <mrcoolbp> I don't mind one or two questions to get the discussion rolling, but I think they may have gone a little to far
[20:54:56] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: absolutely, we strike a balnce between respecting submitters and making quality posts
[20:55:24] <NotSanguine> What was that guy thinking! Somebody should smack him with a 2x4...oh, wait... :)
[20:55:47] <mrcoolbp> if you tear apart a submission, or expand on a oneliner+link, we usually use the wording: "NotSanguine writes in with a link to blah blah" or something
[20:56:04] <NotSanguine> Sounds reasonable. I'll try to make it less obnoxious
[20:56:06] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: I'm trying to be impartial = )
[20:56:26] <NotSanguine> Hey, I can smack myself with a 2x4 if I want. :) OUch!
[20:56:42] <mrcoolbp> I won't stop you, but I'd recommend against it
[20:58:11] * mrcoolbp wonders if he gave hendrik3 a too-difficult first story = (
[20:58:34] <hendrik3> Written it, the new version is in the Intro copy panel.
[20:58:47] <mrcoolbp> I'm challenging you guys, there's a lot of competition now yaknow?
[20:59:03] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: let's see what you got. Hit update/save
[21:00:18] <hendrik3> Now I click update? Or do I check Display first? What goes in the Display box?
[21:00:45] <hendrik3> I hit 'update'.
[21:01:37] <hendrik3> I meant what goes in the Department box.
[21:02:18] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: that's where you write your catchy one-liner dept
[21:02:23] <hendrik3> If the story was too difficult, I didn't notice.
[21:02:43] <mrcoolbp> if you type words with spaces: they-will-be-replace-with-hyphens-like-this
[21:02:55] <mrcoolbp> Uncheck display for now
[21:04:18] <mrcoolbp> we check display when we feel our job is done, and we are ready for it to go out to the main page. The story will be "red" in the story list, indicating that it is in need of a second check, but if we've done our job (and even if it doesn't get a second check) the story will go out without a problem
[21:05:24] <NotSanguine> mrcoolbp: article updated. Have I successfully walked the line WRT appropriateness./censorship?
[21:06:50] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: I won't always be here to answer these questions for you, nor am I the EiC, I guess ask yourself are those questions necessary? does the article stand on it's own?
[21:07:11] <mrcoolbp> also it's a weird case as it is a general NO-NO to post your own submissions
[21:07:21] <NotSanguine> The intent of the questions was to spur discussion.
[21:07:24] <mrcoolbp> (unless it's a breaking story or a meta article maybe)
[21:07:33] <NotSanguine> I know. I picked it because it should be easy to edit
[21:07:43] <NotSanguine> I guess I was wrong
[21:08:04] <hendrik3> I'll have to think of a catchy one-liner.
[21:08:20] <mrcoolbp> I understand and I'll leave it at that, technically the article looks good, as far as appropriateness, we have to constantly make these decisions
[21:08:23] <NotSanguine> As I said, the questions were to spur discussion. Otherwise (at least it seemed so to me) that it's just another me too
[21:08:46] <mrcoolbp> Remember, you as an editor can always ask these questions IN THE COMMENTS
[21:08:53] <mrcoolbp> the goal of the summary is to inform
[21:09:11] <NotSanguine> As an editor, that makes a lot of sense.
[21:09:43] <NotSanguine> As the submitter, I wanted to get folks to put themselves into the story.
[21:10:05] <NetCraft> ^ 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[21:10:06] <NetCraft> ^ 03Vampire Weekend - Oxford Comma - YouTube ( https://www.youtube.com )
[21:10:06] <NetCraft> ^* 03Vampire Weekend – Oxford Comma Lyrics | Genius
[21:10:07] <NetCraft> ^ 03SN article: UK ISPs Block Sites that List Pirate Bay Proxies 04(10 comments) ( https://soylentnews.org )
[21:10:07] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: SoylentNews Policy Document
[21:10:07] <NetCraft> " 03Imgur
[21:10:07] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Story Style
[21:10:07] <NetCraft> " 03Imgur
[21:10:08] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editors
[21:10:09] <NetCraft> " 03Imgur
[21:10:10] <NetCraft> ^* 03Energy drinks raise resting blood pressure, with effect most dramatic in those not used to caffeine -- ScienceDaily
[21:10:11] <NetCraft> ^* 03Dev.SN: Dev.SN is dead developers
[21:10:15] <mrcoolbp> Ignore all that^
[21:10:19] <chromas> =part
[21:10:19] -!- NetCraft [NetCraft!~confirms@0::1] has parted #editorial
[21:10:20] <mrcoolbp> chromas!!!
[21:10:23] <mrcoolbp> lol
[21:10:37] <chromas> Sorry; doing some tweaks
[21:10:38] <NotSanguine> But I'm wering my editor hat now, so I think that's too many questions
[21:10:47] <NotSanguine> wearing
[21:11:34] <mrcoolbp> your call now, you are in the driver's seat
[21:11:55] <mrcoolbp> chromas: no prob, just messing with you
[21:12:51] <hendrik3> I updated after checking 'display' and it turned yellow instead of red.
[21:13:43] <mrcoolbp> yes, that appears RED for us
[21:13:48] <mrcoolbp> yellow for you
[21:13:58] <mrcoolbp> If I do the same it will appear red for you and yellow for me
[21:14:19] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: I'll take a look, now might be a good time to re-skim through the EditingProcess doc
[21:14:31] <mrcoolbp> now that you have seen the interface, the text should make more sense
[21:15:16] <hendrik3> It will. Should I stay online? My wife would like to take a walk with me soon.
[21:15:29] <NotSanguine> Okay, so now I am a beginner editor. How do we move forward? I assume that someone needs to decide whether or not to let me loose. Hopefully, even after that there will be someone looking over my shoulder for the first few stories
[21:16:21] <NotSanguine> And I'm sure you have stuff do other than babysit me, mrcoolbp
[21:16:38] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: I think we got two stories for you posted. Get them both published on dev main page and I'll send a link to Laminatorx
[21:16:58] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: he needs to rubber-stamp you, then we can get you on prod
[21:17:27] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: in the meantime: welcome to SN! would you like an email address? (if so what would you like @sn.org?)
[21:19:39] <NotSanguine> how do I get them on the main page? Just wait for the release time?
[21:20:30] <mrcoolbp> release them the pron story for 8 min from now and ping me
[21:20:45] <NotSanguine> sure. Email addresses are good. . NotSanguine@sn,org is fine. Can I have that autoforwarded?
[21:21:01] <NotSanguine> And thank you. You are a good teacher
[21:21:38] <mrcoolbp> no prob man
[21:22:10] <NotSanguine> I updated the release time to 2130 GMT
[21:22:23] <NotSanguine> GMT, UTC whatever
[21:23:09] <NotSanguine> should I do the same for the animation story?
[21:23:24] <NotSanguine> mrcoolbp: ping
[21:23:29] <mrcoolbp> you sent that out already, that one is fine
[21:23:44] <NotSanguine> It's still yellow in my story list
[21:24:01] <mrcoolbp> yes, that's perfect sir
[21:24:11] <mrcoolbp> I'll send them to Lamx for review
[21:24:40] <NotSanguine> Thanks! I'll leave you alone now. Have a lovely evening
[21:24:57] <mrcoolbp> not a problem at all, thanks for jumping in
[21:25:23] <mrcoolbp> we'll talk soon, is it okay if I email you on your address on your SN account?
[21:25:53] <mrcoolbp> NotSanguine: ^
[21:26:24] <NotSanguine> absolutely.
[21:26:40] <mrcoolbp> cool, take it easy then
[21:26:43] <NotSanguine> once you give me an sn account, I'm just going to forward it to that email address
[21:26:48] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: sorry man
[21:27:03] <mrcoolbp> if you need to go that's fine
[21:27:19] <NotSanguine> hasta la pasta.
[21:27:26] -!- NotSanguine has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[21:27:26] <mrcoolbp> later sanguine
[21:27:36] <hendrik3> The story is yellow on the story list, but still listed under my name in the panel below.
[21:28:20] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3 we can catch up later, you should take care of your wife. I can forward that story to LaminatorX. If you want to do another at some point, it's good to have at least two examples to show LamX
[21:28:38] <mrcoolbp> just send me an email mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org
[21:28:41] <CoolHand|away> was hendrik3 playing with my story? will it still count when Lamx looks at it?
[21:28:45] CoolHand|away is now known as CoolHand
[21:29:21] <mrcoolbp> ?
[21:29:24] * mrcoolbp looks
[21:29:58] <CoolHand> my Energy Drinks story
[21:31:30] <mrcoolbp> I don't see him "playing" with that story, nor did he save any updates to it.
[21:31:45] <CoolHand> never mind
[21:31:48] <CoolHand> i'm freaking out
[21:31:55] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: yes, as I said, yellow means it's "red" for everyone else
[21:31:55] <CoolHand> I just ran a 5k on the treadmill
[21:32:04] <mrcoolbp> CoolHand: cool down bro
[21:32:05] <CoolHand> so cut me slack
[21:32:06] <CoolHand> :)
[21:32:07] <mrcoolbp> = )
[21:34:50] <CoolHand> i saw that bot posting it and for some reason i got it mixed up with some other stuff on the screen... I think my raised pulse is acting like a hallucinogne
[21:35:36] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: I have to run out soon too, are you going to sign off soon?
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[21:38:10] * mrcoolbp has to runoff for a bit
[21:40:45] <CoolHand> hendrik3: hey I didn't mean to accuse you of any malfeasance there... sorry if it came off that way.. i was just confused
[21:41:35] <hendrik3> Of course you were confused. Ut';s confusing!
[21:42:04] <CoolHand> yep.. cool.. gotta go ttyl
[21:42:08] <quixote> re microvolunteering. I'm fairly good with straight html, css, but not any kind of programming/scripting. Professionally: uni prof in biology. So, yes, can detect bias, but like everyone, don't see it as much in things I agree with. Could probably get used to converting UTC :D.
[21:42:09] CoolHand is now known as CoolHand|away
[21:45:15] <mrcoolbp> quixote: I have to run out for a bit, I'll be back in an hour, but n1 might be able to help out until I get back. If you haven't yet read the editorial documentation on the wiki that is a good place to start. After you read that either ping me here or send me an email mrcoolbp@soylentnews.org
[21:45:35] <mrcoolbp> http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[21:45:35] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editors
[21:45:42] <mrcoolbp> specifically http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[21:45:42] <NetCraft> ^* 03Wiki: Editing Process ( http://wiki.soylentnews.org )
[21:45:49] <mrcoolbp> BBL
[21:45:52] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[21:47:13] <quixote> ok mrcoolbp. I'll have a look and then email.
[21:47:24] -!- quixote has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[21:51:02] <janrinok> see you guys tomorrow
[21:51:36] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]
[21:52:06] <hendrik3> CoolHand: If I had edited your post while you were, it wouldn't be a matter of impoliteness -- it would have been a failure of mutual exclusion in the site's software. Much more serious, but either of us at fault.
[21:55:01] <hendrik3> The Editing Process page, under the heading Basic Editing Page (BEP), says to provide feedback to the submitter explaining why you feel that the submission is not suitable. Wasn;t there a discussion on the main site recently where it seemed that there wasn't a mechanism for doing that?
[23:00:26] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: I don't think we are currently providing feedback to submitters
[23:10:50] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: there were a few people that wanted to hear why they were getting rejected. So we tried informing people of rejection reasons for a while. It ended up not being necessary, so we aren't doing that anymore. I'll remove that from the wiki
[23:53:02] <mrcoolbp> hendrik3: if you have anymore questions let us know. n1, and janrinok are great and may be able to help show you the ropes. The "PolarSSL" story still needs a a few tweaks (hint: look at the Story Style doc, http://wiki.soylentnews.org and your "dept." should be all lower case). Once you have 2 stories that are "ready" send me an email (mrcoolbp@so
[23:53:02] <mrcoolbp> ylentnews.org) or ping me here and I'll forward them to LaminatorX for approval. I'll catch you around.
[23:53:03] <NetCraft> ^ 03Wiki: Story Style