#editorial | Logs for 2014-07-11
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[00:14:45] <paulej72> mrcoolbp: my 2 cents: he is a known troller from ./ and should be treated as such until proven otherwise. So far he is not looking good.
[00:15:11] <mrcoolbp> no, I even checked on the down-modders, I think he's just being trollish
[00:15:54] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: you got mail = )
[00:17:35] <paulej72> mrcoolbp: he is one screw short of a deck :)
[00:26:53] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: yup.
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[00:45:38] <n1> Azrael
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[10:08:57] <janrinok> hi guys
[10:52:15] <janrinok> Hi Azrael
[11:43:05] <Azrael> yo yo yo
[13:21:48] <janrinok> wee
[13:22:09] <janrinok> we appear to be out of sync by over an hour or so!
[13:22:18] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[13:59:28] <Azrael> hehehe
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[15:04:55] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[15:05:13] <janrinok> mrworkbp: hi, how's things with you today?
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[15:11:46] <janrinok> hi Woods
[15:12:00] <Woods> Hey
[15:13:00] <LaminatorX> 'Lo all.
[15:13:47] <janrinok> hi LaminatorX, Woods and mrworkbp !
[15:14:48] <janrinok> I've posted a few stories but I'm currently adding to the submissions list to help us through the w/e
[15:15:00] <LaminatorX> Cool.
[15:15:57] <janrinok> the 'Regurgitator' on #rss-bot is very good. Any idea where I could find the source?
[15:17:45] <LaminatorX> Juggs ought to know.
[15:18:52] <janrinok> Ah, it's one of his, is it?
[15:19:18] <LaminatorX> Not sure, but I thought he set up RSS bot.
[15:20:02] <janrinok> thx for the info, I'll try to contact him
[15:20:22] <janrinok> He's afk at the moment.
[15:20:57] <n1> good afternoon
[15:21:02] <Azrael> I run a supy bot that has an RSS plugin I use to mointor feeds (on another server) I tinker with it so infrequently I have to re-learn it every time, but worth checking out
[15:21:20] <Azrael> http://sourceforge.net
[15:21:21] <monopoly> ^ 03Supybot | Free Communications software downloads at SourceForge.net
[15:21:56] <janrinok> thx Azrael - I'll have a look at that one as well.
[15:24:40] <Azrael> a whois on regurgitator claims it belongs to Juggs
[15:46:03] <janrinok> APK certainly has some issues that he needs to seek help for!
[16:05:29] * mrworkbp is kinda here
[16:05:47] <janrinok> lol - well kinda hello to you then
[16:06:55] <mrworkbp> kinda "yo wassup?"
[16:08:32] <janrinok> OK, and you?
[16:09:30] <janrinok> I've just tried the stupid mistake of using reason and calm with our 'new' member and submitter - APK. I hope they find a cure for whatever he has...
[16:10:46] <n1> APK isn't happy i posted his story?
[16:10:52] <n1> ¬_¬
[16:11:24] <janrinok> Oh, It never got to that stage.... He's probably very happy.
[16:11:48] <n1> i mean i did delete his 'ive been modded wrong' rant that was also included in the submission
[16:12:09] <janrinok> He went on a rant about sock puppets, down-modding etc, and I (_foolishly_) tried to explain how we do it here. Apparently I'm also a sockpuppet now!
[16:13:16] <n1> in his submission he linked to wrong mods, so i saw who had been modding him, two what appear to be legit 3uid names had down modded
[16:13:25] <n1> not staff, didn't look like a conspiracy to me.
[16:13:48] <janrinok> No, apparently he has 'previous' from the other site.
[16:14:09] <LaminatorX> As long as it wasn't any of my six accounts.
[16:14:16] <janrinok> I only have 1 person in my foe list - guess who it is..?
[16:14:23] <janrinok> lol
[16:16:31] <n1> i wouldnt like to guess..
[16:17:06] <janrinok> no - you're safe, at least you don't appear to be bat-shit crazy with no control over your mind or keyboard.
[16:17:46] <n1> doesn't narrow it down much :p
[16:17:52] <janrinok> rofl
[16:24:15] <mrworkbp> oh god I have to return APK's email...
[16:24:23] * mrworkbp doesn't know what to say exactly
[16:24:53] <LaminatorX> What addy did he email?
[16:36:43] <janrinok> he has a hotmail address on his home page
[16:37:32] <janrinok> mrworkbp: why did you get an email from APK?
[16:38:57] <janrinok> UserID 4517 Karma -7
[17:21:17] <LaminatorX> Wow. That guy's a total asshat.
[17:27:19] <Woods> He seems to have little control over what he types, as Janrinok suggests.
[17:27:56] <Woods> I read his recent journal entry, and I just picture a really twitchy kid with super ADD attempting to type a cohesive thought.
[17:33:56] <janrinok> attempting...and failing miserably
[17:34:38] <LaminatorX> I've never been called a "little tin-god dictator" before. I suppose I've arrived.
[17:35:00] <janrinok> wouldn't you rather be a big tin-god dictator?
[17:35:10] <LaminatorX> On a less professional forum, I would totally make that my sig.
[17:38:01] <LaminatorX> What's sad is that he completely derailed the discussion of his own story.
[17:38:52] <janrinok> yep, but I hope he sleeps happy in his bed tonight.
[17:40:24] <janrinok> Its interesting looking at that thread at level 1 - he doesn't feature much!
[17:42:10] <n1> makes me feel sane.
[17:42:15] <janrinok> lol
[17:42:35] <janrinok> gtg guys for a hour or two - laters
[17:42:45] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[17:43:03] <n1> laters
[17:57:58] <Woods> Good God what is APK trying to accomplish?
[18:01:51] <LaminatorX> Paranoid attention masturbation, clearly. Let's hope he stays in situ. He's already posted from two different IPs, I'd rather just start ignoring him and hope he coold off than start playing whack-a-mole with IP-banning ACs.
[18:03:09] <Woods> Yeah, I saw the IP switch, but his writing style kinda gives him away.
[18:03:42] <Woods> I kept wanting to respond to his posts with just, like, a bunch of question marks.
[18:03:43] <LaminatorX> Hopefully that was just desktop vs mobile IPs rather than him proxying up for a fight.
[18:04:17] <Woods> Did we accidentally insult his heritage, or murder his family, or something?
[18:05:26] <LaminatorX> We failed to redress the injustice of his neg mods yesterday (-7 karma in 1 day), so clearly we must be part of the downmodding sockonspiracy against him.
[18:06:12] <Woods> Ahhhh. I should have known. Negative e-points.
[18:07:27] <LaminatorX> That's low enough that he posts at -1, thus the AC noise.
[18:11:30] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|afk
[18:11:35] <LaminatorX|afk> back in a bit.
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[18:16:50] <Woods> In his defense though, 7 downmods from the same person in the same day is a bit much. But in THEIR defense, every post by APK is rambling and off topic.
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[18:36:00] <n1> who downmoded him 7 times in one day?
[19:16:05] <Woods> n1: http://soylentnews.org
[19:16:06] <monopoly> ^ 03 Tramii - SoylentNews User
[19:17:18] <n1> does seem over the top, but otherwise seems like a reasonable user from a casual look at the profile
[19:17:38] <n1> modding the user up and down in different stories.
[19:29:02] LaminatorX|afk is now known as LaminatorX
[19:30:28] <LaminatorX> It wasn't just that one user dming his posts either. It looks like he was modding through a thread where APK was acting up.
[19:31:15] <n1> i didnt look at the comments but that makes sense
[19:32:03] <n1> Well, at least we can appreciate the tact Ethanol-Fueled employs now.
[20:14:05] <Woods> Yes, at least Ethanol writes coherent sentences that make sense together.
[20:17:19] <LaminatorX> EF can write some insightful commentary, when he's not spewing bigoted trash. I trust the mod system to sort his posts appropriately.
[20:19:10] <mrworkbp> janrinok: he though he was unfairly down-modded and made it very clear he would like mod-histories de-anonymized
[20:21:05] <mrworkbp> LaminatorX: if you see BlackHole (matt_) check with him, he wants to begin work on codifying some SN policies and I told him you are head of editorial
[20:21:47] <LaminatorX> Cool, thanks.
[20:26:12] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[20:27:03] <janrinok> mrworkbp: Yeah, thx for that. I understood what he wanted but if he had just asked in a polite and coherent manner he might have received more help.
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[20:28:13] <janrinok> hi BlackHole
[20:28:19] <BlackHole> janrinok, hi!
[20:28:36] <janrinok> how's things?
[20:30:04] <BlackHole> good, i just heard back from Ingrid Stegemoeller, Communications Director at U.S. House of Representatives, who directed me to Congressman Larsen's campaign director, who i have now emailed to invite the Congressman to join the discussion with Mr. Guillot.
[20:30:07] <BlackHole> =)
[20:30:23] <janrinok> Great!
[20:30:28] <BlackHole> stay tuned!
[20:30:34] <BlackHole> how are things with you?
[20:30:48] <janrinok> a much better day all round I think, thx for asking.
[20:31:21] <LaminatorX> Somebody wants equal time on SN? Hah, that's fantastic.
[20:31:42] <BlackHole> janrinok, cool. also, impressive that you can say that given the fun with apk earlier :)
[20:32:26] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, well, i'm not sure whether the incumbent will take me up on the offer, but we'll see ;)
[20:33:15] <LaminatorX> Oh, I see, we reached out. Classy of us, then.
[20:33:29] <janrinok> BlackHole: ah, that sort of thing goes with the job, I suppose.
[20:34:01] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, yes. i was as enticing as possible, without actually making any promises, of course :)
[20:34:37] <BlackHole> in my email to the congressman
[20:40:04] <LaminatorX> I wonder how many constituants of his read here.
[20:40:27] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, In the meeting in #staff on Tuesday, we discussed creating a "SN Policies and Procedures Manual", the idea being to codify policies/guidelines for dealing with everything from password management to staff appointment to corrections, retractions, complaints, etc.
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[20:41:04] <BlackHole> does this sound like a reasonable thing to do, and if so, how should it go about getting done?
[20:41:23] <BlackHole> would a wiki page be a good start (i can create one if so).
[20:41:34] <LaminatorX> Sounds good. We probably need such a thing, now that we're legal.
[20:42:27] <LaminatorX> I think a starting point would be talking to someone with HR experience in our "home" state.
[20:43:55] <LaminatorX> It's simple enough while we're all volunteers, but I'd hate to find out about a rule when we get in trouble for violating it.
[20:44:05] <BlackHole> Because we are all volunteers at the moment, I don't believe that we...
[20:44:12] <BlackHole> ok you just ninja'd me :)
[20:45:01] <BlackHole> But I think that you're right: As long as we aren't paying employees, we have a great deal of flexibility.
[20:47:12] * janrinok seems to recall being promised 'wealth and power beyond my wildest dreams', or something like that. Although perhaps I'd been drinking at that point....
[20:48:52] <LaminatorX> It would be good to know that, rather than be assuming it though.
[20:49:20] <janrinok> what, that I'd been drinking? OK, I confess, just a small one...
[20:49:32] <LaminatorX> There may be things like confidentiality laws that still apply to volunteers.
[20:49:40] <BlackHole> true. perhaps the best thing though, would be to go to someone like that with an idea in mind of roughly what we are thinking.
[20:49:46] <janrinok> That's a good point.
[20:51:55] <LaminatorX> Sure, I imagine most of what we would come up with would be things that are harmess, like who has access to passwords and can reset them and such.
[20:52:14] <LaminatorX> s/harmess/harmless
[20:53:06] <BlackHole> yes, it would be nice to eliminate any remaining single-point-of-failure vulnerabilities.
[20:55:07] * LaminatorX goes to look over the meeting log.
[20:55:09] <BlackHole> is there anything on the editorial side that should be codified? For example, "the Editor in Chief appoints editors", "editors have final say as to what is published", etc.
[20:59:06] <LaminatorX> It would do to formalize things a bit, yes.
[21:02:13] <LaminatorX> Thusfar I've been approving all new editors. It probably be good to keep final say WRT content in EiC hands, as we don't have "Publisher" as a board position. The board could presumably dismiss EiC in the event of a bloody power struggle, but this aint the Daily Bugle. I doubt it would come up..
[21:03:30] <LaminatorX> A lot of the "how we do things" things are documented here: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[21:03:31] <monopoly> ^ 03Editing Process - SoylentNews
[21:04:12] <janrinok> Actually, I suppose it should state that we _are_ all volunteers. So that no-one could say that they expected to be paid for their efforts or whatever in the event of a dispute.
[21:04:18] <BlackHole> I agree, unless it would make more sense to have certain things be solely in the EiC's, and other things left to a vote of the editorial board.
[21:05:52] <LaminatorX> Thusfar, we've never had a dispute to speak of, so it's hard to think about what would need to be broken down like that.
[21:06:00] <LaminatorX> It's worth considering though.
[21:06:01] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, there is a lot of great info on that wiki page, but it doesn't really deal with disputes.
[21:06:40] <BlackHole> I guess I started thinking of it after the candidate story was published...
[21:06:58] <LaminatorX> I suppose deposing Dopefish is the only trouble we had, and he didn't really contest it.
[21:07:01] <janrinok> Well disputes within the team are resolved by EiC, but you are right that I don't suppose we've ever thought of things in this way before.
[21:07:16] <BlackHole> When he responded, we weren't sure who's permission to ask to bump it to the top of the page or even whether that was really appropriate.
[21:07:29] <janrinok> Outside the individual teams, NC has command.
[21:07:56] <janrinok> ..or at least that is my understanding of it - which probably goes to show why we need to do this exercise.
[21:08:09] <BlackHole> It seemed to me like an editorial decision, but i think that some of us felt like we should get NC's permission...
[21:08:28] <LaminatorX> I'd say eny editor should be empowered to do something like that for breaking news, with site admins able to act if none of us can be reached.
[21:10:30] <LaminatorX> I generally have tried to empower individual editors to do what is necessary to keep the presses rolling, and step in when I see something questionable, rather than have "Ask EiC for approval" be the norm.
[21:11:04] <LaminatorX> Although I'm always happy to offer guidance when requested.
[21:12:17] <BlackHole> That sounds very reasonable. It is always difficult to figure out how to defend against disputes that have not yet occurred.
[21:15:35] <LaminatorX> I would say that generally, EiC should resolve editorial disputes, though we may want to give the Editors the option to appeal to the board if there is unanimous opposition to EiC or something. I am after all a "little tin-god dictator."
[21:16:45] * BlackHole tries to picture a sockpuppet tin-god dictator...
[21:17:02] <LaminatorX> Tin socks are quite uncomfortable.
[21:18:28] <BlackHole> would it be helpful to have an editorial board (i.e., a group of executive editors, perhaps with field-specific expertise) or would something like that just be a hindrance at this point?
[21:19:13] <LaminatorX> This morning's tantrum also points out a need to define policy for handling troublemakers. We could've banned his IP, I'm inclined to think we shouldn't have. If he spread beyond that story and became a recurring problem though, stronger action might be called for.
[21:19:14] <BlackHole> it seems like an appeal of an EiC decision would be made first to an editorial board, then to the BoD, if necessary (frankly, i can see the editorial board's decision being final).
[21:20:10] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, exactly. it would be good to at least have some rough guidelines. in my experience many bad decisions are made, when they are made on a "case-by-case" basis.
[21:21:09] <LaminatorX> That could work. My worry about designated subject matter experts or "editorial desks" is that it might make people reticent to work in other people's "turf."
[21:22:07] * BlackHole steps out to grab a coffee. back in 5-10min.
[21:22:20] <LaminatorX> A general "senior editor" distinction might be useful though, like who could train others and such.
[21:23:03] <janrinok> I'm not sure that we have enough eds to make a board.
[21:23:23] <janrinok> LaminatorX: Your suggestion is better I believe.
[21:25:18] <janrinok> I'm not certain that we need the 'senior' tag - but I have no objection to it - but a 'training' tag would be useful.
[21:25:56] <janrinok> But only EiC should be able to request the appropriate ed access to a newly recruited editor.
[21:26:10] <janrinok> access for*
[21:28:31] <LaminatorX> Let's say I have some heretofore unknown horrible bias though. It might be good for the next three most experienced editors to unanimously overrule me.
[21:29:07] <LaminatorX> By story count, that would be you, n1, and Woods.
[21:29:08] <janrinok> but anyone of us could always go above you (to NC I suppose) and ask him to mediate.
[21:30:29] <janrinok> and we need to be careful of using story count as a metric. Quantity does not equal quality.
[21:30:58] <janrinok> I think that there are seriously several editors who are far better than I at the job.
[21:31:53] <LaminatorX> Well, story could would be the alternative to a Sr-tag.
[21:32:05] <Woods> Additionally, being here longer does mean you would have a higher story count than all others.
[21:32:18] <Woods> But I think you would be fine for the job, Janrinok.
[21:33:02] <janrinok> I think it should be in EiC's gift to choose who he wants to call Snr, training or whatever. How the EiC chooses them is for him to justify - if required - to NC.
[21:33:37] <janrinok> lol thx Woods
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[21:35:10] <Woods> Sounds good to me. From what I can tell about the editors that have been here longer than I have, everyone has a level head. I would have no worries about trusting any of them with power over any of this.
[21:35:49] <LaminatorX> Really, I'm confident that if the three of you were to feel strongly enough that I'm full of shit to tell me so, I'm probably full of shit in that instance.
[21:35:59] <janrinok> Woods: true, but we have to devise a system that documents how _any_ group of eds should organise themselves, if I am following this correctly.
[21:36:03] <Woods> lol
[21:36:19] <Woods> Lammy, I doubt that would happen, but I agree.
[21:36:32] <janrinok> ^
[21:37:18] <LaminatorX> Right, we need to work out a process that our manaical future sucessors will at least need to work hard at to abuse horribly.
[21:39:48] <Woods> Indeed. We may be great people, but the future editors of the site are pretty awful.
[21:39:56] <Woods> I hate those guys
[21:40:23] <LaminatorX> Those bastards, just waiting to swoop in and take our seats of power and priviledge.
[21:40:34] * BlackHole returns, reads the scrollback, and sees that everything has been figured out in his absence :)
[21:41:19] <Woods> Future Woods is a dick.
[21:42:09] <Woods> In a more serious note, if (God forbid) we were getting paid for this gig, I think things may be quite a bit different.
[21:42:47] <BlackHole> Woods, different-good or different-bad?
[21:43:01] <janrinok> I wait with baited breath....
[21:43:08] <Woods> Bad, most likely. I cannot even vouch for myself.
[21:43:30] <LaminatorX> I don't see money for full-time editor jobs happening in the near term, but something like a monthly stipend for those who post more than a certain minimum number of stories and commit to weekend coverage would be appropriate, IMO.
[21:43:47] <janrinok> do you want to discuss paid eds? I can see loads of pitfalls there.
[21:43:57] <Woods> The sheer fact that I am not getting paid means I have no REAL power. Just words on a screen that change words on a different screen, you know?
[21:44:21] <BlackHole> the idea of paying a stipend to editors has come up several times over the last couple of weeks.
[21:44:28] <janrinok> LaminatorX: one would have to be careful over the quantity versus quality again.
[21:44:47] <Woods> Yeah, I am not so sure that would be easy to work out.
[21:45:02] <janrinok> I'm not arguing against it - just not sure how you evaluate it yet
[21:45:24] <BlackHole> perhaps because it is the one job that requires people to do things on a fairly regular basis
[21:45:58] <Woods> BlackHole: You are forgetting our sockpuppet accounts, we have to log into those quite often so we stay eligible for mod points.
[21:45:59] <janrinok> LaminatorX: you and know that, if push comes to shove, 2 people can fill the queues for several weeks - but I don't think it was my best quality work.
[21:46:07] <janrinok> you and I*
[21:46:43] <BlackHole> Woods, i'm pretty sure you and i are the only people here. it's just us, our sockpuppets, and a bunch of bots.
[21:46:48] <janrinok> BlackHole: certainly if the eds don't produce everyone notices very quickly
[21:46:53] <Woods> lolololo
[21:47:15] <janrinok> nicest thing I've been called all day!
[21:47:21] <LaminatorX> I think that we're working at a level and carrying responsability such that some renumeration would not be inappropriate.
[21:47:31] * BlackHole agrees.
[21:48:07] <janrinok> I agree, but how do you differentiate between those that get paid and those that don't, or even how much?
[21:48:17] <Woods> I suppose, I would just advise being incredibly wary.
[21:48:29] <Woods> Dice roll.
[21:48:31] <LaminatorX> Careful thought would be required, yes.
[21:48:34] <BlackHole> well, first of all, it certainly wouldn't be much :)
[21:48:39] <BlackHole> at least to start.
[21:48:43] <Woods> 5, 6 cents.
[21:48:46] <janrinok> At the end of the day, EiC is the only one who can say if work is up to standard or not
[21:49:49] <Woods> A simple solution (I suppose) might be to vote on who gets monetary compensation. Or some variation thereof.
[21:50:08] <janrinok> You might run the risk of those _not_ getting paid either moving on, or at least not doing _any_ weekend work.
[21:50:11] <Woods> Instead of it being based on numbers.
[21:50:35] <LaminatorX> Right, we don't want to create a perverse incentive.
[21:51:30] <BlackHole> yes, perhaps a flat stipend for any editor who reaches a certain threshold of activity.
[21:52:08] <LaminatorX> Sounds familiar. ;)
[21:52:12] <Woods> BlackHole: Not sure that would work either. In some cases, you could say I am not even active half the time.
[21:52:15] <janrinok> BlackHole: with the clear understanding that, if they fall below the threshold, payment ceases.
[21:53:18] <LaminatorX> Perhaps it could be calculated weekly Mon-Sun. Provides an incentive for weekend posting.
[21:53:45] <LaminatorX> If you take a week off, no biggie, you're still eligable the following week.
[21:53:57] <BlackHole> Woods, that works perfectly, then we don't have to pay you :)
[21:54:02] <janrinok> sounds reasonable. I suspect that will have to be some trial and error at first to discover what works and what doesn't.
[21:54:16] <Woods> XD
[21:55:45] <janrinok> A slight variation - not payment directly. After a period on the staff, can one assume that their 'annual subscription' would be waived?
[21:56:23] <Woods> Hmm, I thought staff got a subscription for free?
[21:56:42] <janrinok> I've not seen that in writing - although it seems reasonable.
[21:57:23] <LaminatorX> I would hope we would. I'll do quite a lot for free, but far less if it costs me.
[21:57:35] <janrinok> BlackHole: that is not editor specific of course, so it needs to be documented somewhere else I presume.
[21:58:12] <LaminatorX> Frankly, I'd love for even a small amount of actual money to bump this from "Volunteering" to "Actual job on my resume."
[21:58:28] <janrinok> I wouldn't say no!
[21:58:29] <Woods> Ohhh, this is a good point.
[21:58:53] <Woods> And now I am wondering what the minimum required is before I can list it as a "Job"
[21:59:14] <Woods> But then again, if we got paid.... TAXES
[21:59:29] <LaminatorX> Well, you'd be listing me as your supervisor presumably. ;)
[21:59:39] <BlackHole> Well, if mrcoolbp's swag initiative is the stunning success that i assume it will be, perhaps we could bring in 1000 USD/month?
[22:00:14] <janrinok> gtg for 1 hour. sry. I was enjoying this.
[22:00:22] <LaminatorX> ICeeya.
[22:00:24] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[22:00:39] <BlackHole> which, once you deduct excise taxes, accountant fees, hosting costs, certificate-authority fees, etc. doesn't leave too much in the short term.
[22:01:00] <LaminatorX> I'd be surprised if swag was steady $ though.
[22:01:22] <BlackHole> yes, and subscriptions certainly won't be either, i would presume.
[22:02:04] <LaminatorX> Subs would at least hopefully recur.
[22:03:19] <BlackHole> i believe the current plan is 20 USD/yr for a subscription, so it would be quite a long time before the initial subscribers would need to renew.
[22:04:51] <LaminatorX> So if perhaps a third of the dailies subscrube, that's ~$1500/year. Enough for hosting, but not much else.
[22:07:44] <BlackHole> yes. that is not much at all. can you think of any ways that we can drive more people to the site (non-evil ways, preferably)
[22:08:19] <LaminatorX> Well, to date we've done no marketting whatsoever.
[22:08:25] <BlackHole> we're looking at a $5000 retainer for a lawyer..., which at the rate you mentioned will take us 3.3 years to pay off :/
[22:12:52] <LaminatorX> I think that there are members who would be willing to kick in more than $20/yr if we can give them a framework that makes sense. Something like stretchgoals on a croudfunding site perhaps. "If we reach $$, we can hire a part-time code maintainer, if we reach $$$, we can buy the editors dinner once a month, " etc.
[22:13:06] * BlackHole just read the #staff log. Technically, i'm the secretary, mrcoolbp is the treasurer. =)
[22:13:16] <LaminatorX> Ah, my mistake.
[22:14:03] <BlackHole> no worries. i am in charge of keeping the minutes, and not much else :)
[22:15:44] <BlackHole> In fact, I think that NC is keen on looking into crowdfunding. Last I heard, the thinking is that Indiegogo may be a good bet, as it takes less of a cut and is more flexible if you don't reach your goal.
[22:17:00] <LaminatorX> An annual pledge drive would make a lot of sense. Our future goals look a lot like a local public radio station.
[22:18:02] <BlackHole> Yes, I also remember a few comments suggesting something like a Wikipedia-style pledge drive with progress towards the goal shown at the top of the front page...
[22:18:13] <BlackHole> I also remember a few comments against it.
[22:20:39] <chromas> Can we get banners with tight shots of the staff's faces? :D
[22:20:56] <Woods> Chromas: Only if we look super sad.
[22:21:21] <LaminatorX> Similar to the public broadcasting model, underwriting/sponsorship might be a way to do advertising without selling our souls. "This weeks stories brought to you be O'Reilley." or the like.
[22:21:24] <chromas> Or maybe just the eyes, menacing: "Oh, you /will/ donate"
[22:21:30] <Woods> LaminatorX needs to get a picture of his kid crying, that would definitely rend some hearts.
[22:22:00] <chromas> "or else, you hate children. You don't hate children...do you?"
[22:22:11] <Woods> "The father of this child has no more booze", etc.
[22:22:17] <LaminatorX> Sounds like a poll tiopic to me.
[22:26:42] <LaminatorX> So, to sum up, I'd love if Editorial could get funded to the level where SN could buy active Editors dinner once a month and EiC could take the family to the movies once a month.
[22:27:23] <LaminatorX> I think Eic should be able to resolve most disputes, but that we should figure out a way to pick three senior editors who could unanimously overrule me.
[22:28:46] <LaminatorX> Individual Editors should be empowered to handle pressing matters that come up in the moment if they deem it appropriate.
[22:29:59] <LaminatorX> EiC must signoff on new Editors before they go live on production, though any Editor who feels comfortable doing so may assist in training.
[22:30:48] <LaminatorX> EiC is ultimately responsible for keeping the presses running. I log on first thig in the morning and before bed at night.
[22:31:53] <LaminatorX> Editors shuld feel free to field questions and criticisms from the community, but if anything crazy like this morning comes up, reach out to me.
[22:35:03] <LaminatorX> I suppose we need to address expulsions as well, like we should maybe at some point pull editor bits from people after a year of no posting stories. Not to say we wouldn't welcome MrGirl or DF or whomever back if they wanted, but there ought to ba a conversation.
[22:36:19] <LaminatorX> Gross misconduct would of course be grounds for de-frocking as well.
[22:36:43] <LaminatorX> Anything I'm missing.
[22:37:34] <BlackHole> An excellent summary, i think.
[22:38:26] <Woods> Sounds great to me. I am hesitant to look up "de-frocking" though, that sounds terrifying/gross.
[22:38:37] <BlackHole> LaminatorX, would it be alright with you if I wrote this up and circulated it to you, NC, and mrcoolbp for their comments?
[22:38:53] <LaminatorX> By all means.
[22:38:57] <BlackHole> Great!
[22:39:58] <LaminatorX> brb
[22:52:39] <LaminatorX> Wow, the tantrum thread has over 40 AC rants in it now.
[22:53:25] <LaminatorX> I'm still inclined to keep ignoring him as long as he's contained though.
[22:59:12] <BlackHole> wow. i think the latest story may be breaking the record for the most comments in the first couple of hours :)
[23:06:32] <LaminatorX> I don't seem to have gotten a notice about that Staff meeting. Was it in the Topic for #staff or something?
[23:08:34] <BlackHole> I'm not sure. I met with mrcoolbp irl yesterday, and he also mentioned that we need to work on notifying staff of these meetings. This one was originally supposed to be on Monday, but then got changed to Tuesday at the last minute. There is another tentatively scheduled for next Monday at 7pm EST, but it has yet to be confirmed.
[23:11:18] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[23:11:28] <janrinok> Am I back just in time to be too late?>
[23:12:23] <LaminatorX> You've been promoted to Emperor.
[23:12:53] <janrinok> Is that all - I note that you didn't mention the starting pay. About the same as an editor, I guess?
[23:13:17] <LaminatorX> We're angling for "dinner out."
[23:13:52] <Woods> Janrinok is paying.
[23:13:54] <janrinok> just dinner would be fine...
[23:14:31] <janrinok> Woods: put it on my tab, I think everyone in France does....
[23:14:47] <Woods> Kk, just need your credit card number ;)
[23:14:59] <janrinok> We'd better put some more stories in the queue.
[23:15:39] <janrinok> I don't think its necessary Woods, the bills come to me whether you know my credit card details or not....
[23:39:13] <LaminatorX> Alright, I'm headed home. Good discussion gang. :)
[23:41:33] <BlackHole> See you later!
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[23:49:03] <janrinok> BlackHole: I've got to go too. I'll wait for Woods to post his next story, 2nd ed it, and be gone to my bed. cu over the weekend maybe?
[23:50:52] <BlackHole> janrinok, sounds good. i have a lot of rl stuff to catch up on this weekend, but realistically i will almost certainly succumb to the temptation to hop on irc.
[23:51:18] <janrinok> lol - either way, take care and I'll see you around.
[23:51:28] <BlackHole> you too. see you later!
[23:51:38] <Woods> Almost done, Janrinok.
[23:51:51] <janrinok> np
[23:53:30] <Woods> K, there you go, Janrinok. Catch you later!
[23:54:31] <janrinok> and you - take care!
[23:57:14] -!- Woods has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[23:58:00] -!- janrinok has quit [Quit: leaving]