#editorial | Logs for 2014-05-19
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[14:50:35] <Woods> Bad news fellas, we are playing musical chairs here for the next couple of days, I will not be able to be active almost at all during that time.
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[15:06:22] <Woods> I will try to do what I can, but I am going to be pretty busy here.
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[15:14:08] <janrinok> hi guys
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[15:18:16] <Woods> Hey Janrinok.
[15:18:50] <Woods> Nobody was here when I said this earlier... I am going to be pretty busy at work for the next couple of days, so I may not be able to get on here and help at all
[15:19:20] <Woods> I will do what I can, but I may be completely useless until Thursday.
[15:19:35] <janrinok> Hi Woods how's things with you?
[15:19:50] <Woods> Other than busy, good. I hope your vacation went well.
[15:20:14] <janrinok> 50% good 50% not quite as planned but good enough thx
[15:29:04] <janrinok> Just edited the same story! That's a good start! Did you get the updated link?
[15:30:26] <janrinok> Woods: ^^
[15:30:38] <Woods> I did.
[15:31:09] <janrinok> good spot
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[15:31:44] <Woods> That site was weird to navigate.
[15:32:52] <janrinok> oh good, I thought it might just be me...
[15:33:32] <Woods> No, it was definitely made by scientists or something, lol.
[15:34:05] <janrinok> probably the 'something', even scientists aren't usually that bad...
[15:34:39] <Woods> Interns, sheesh.
[15:37:08] <janrinok> Woods: It's good to be back lol
[15:37:33] <Woods> :) Glad to have you back.
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[15:57:34] <janrinok> hi LaminatorX
[15:58:01] <LaminatorX> Welcome back. How went your jouneys?
[16:00:19] <janrinok> thx. some good, some not so good. But it was a useful change for both of us. Although we can now get out of the house from time to time, travelling causes Soph to suffer from what appears to be extreme travel sickness. It is probably to do with the nervous system being unable to cope with the rapidly changing inputs.
[16:07:25] <LaminatorX> Well, it's good at least to know what you're dealing with and be able to weigh it accordingly.
[16:10:08] <janrinok> Exactly, so we are content with the progress made. How's things in your world?
[16:14:40] <LaminatorX> Nice, had a weekend in the country with some old school mates. We manage it about twice a year, always a treat.
[16:15:04] <janrinok> Any music involved?
[16:15:49] <LaminatorX> I brought my banjo along to pick on the porch a bit, but nothing elaborate.
[16:16:26] <janrinok> Sounds like a nice chilled w/end.
[16:16:45] <LaminatorX> Exactly. Good to relax and recharge.
[16:25:01] <janrinok> LaminatorX: Anything changed here on the site - I've voted in the name change - but is there anything else that I may have missed?
[16:26:48] <LaminatorX> I don't think so, at least not the parts that we deal with.
[16:28:11] <janrinok> We seem to have fewer tech-oriented stories and more general news, or is that just me?
[16:29:19] <LaminatorX> A bit so, Following the submissions, as usual.
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[16:43:51] <janrinok> hey n1 - how are you?
[16:44:40] <n1> hey there janrinok, glad to see you back!
[16:45:00] <n1> i'm good, very busy. how have you been?
[16:45:56] <janrinok> Good to be here - enjoyed the break but not everything went according to plan. But we have made progress (a bit at least) so we are moving in the right direction!
[16:47:02] <n1> progress is all i hope for most of the time
[16:47:11] <n1> you went on a little road trip with your new car?
[16:48:15] <janrinok> Yes but unfortunately Soph now suffers from extreme motion sickness due to her degnerating nervous system. But manageable for short journies.
[16:48:27] <janrinok> degenerating*
[16:50:16] <n1> sorry to hear that, i'm glad you made the best of it though, change of scenery must have been nice
[16:50:30] <n1> i'm looking forward to my german change of scenery tomorrow :D
[16:50:51] <janrinok> Woods has been on and said that, due to his workload this week, he will only be able to make a small contribution.
[16:51:16] <janrinok> Of course, your Germany trip - hope that goes well for you. Have a German beer for me!
[16:51:32] <n1> i certainly will, thanks :)
[16:52:41] <n1> i'll be here whenever i can this week but as germany and my dad got back in the country last friday, work is taking a new, hopefully positive direction, lots of competing obligations
[16:53:35] <janrinok> No probs, I'll do what I can
[16:54:05] <janrinok> Where has your Dad been?
[16:54:30] <n1> i'll be here when i can, but probably mostly from the shadows - had a good run for a few days doing quite a few stories while you were away
[16:54:51] <janrinok> I kept one eye on the site...
[16:54:57] <n1> he doesn't live in the UK, lives in the caribbean but comes back for the summer
[16:55:06] <n1> tours the music festivals
[16:55:38] <janrinok> Yep, I remember you telling me that now. Sorry, it just seems to have slipped my mind. It must be an age thing.....
[16:55:51] <n1> lives in a 2-berth caravan for 4 or 5 months, smaller than his bathroom at 'home'.
[16:56:27] <n1> can't remember everything, i feel like i forget more than i learn
[16:57:17] <n1> oh wow, you've made a good run at stories for your first day back ;)
[16:59:41] <janrinok> I've got to keep you others at bay...
[17:00:52] <n1> i should be able to pick up where you've finished - not sure if i'm going to be sleeping tonight as we need to leave at 6am tomorrow for the airport.
[17:01:10] <n1> hopefully by then some more subs will have come in, will keep me occupied while the time ticks by.
[17:01:58] <janrinok> Talking of memory - I deduced that I have a conveyor-belt mind. As I put a new fact in, another one drops off the other end. As you get older the conveyor-belt gets shorter. I'm thinking of writing a scientific paper about it but I cannot remember where I put my pen.
[17:02:13] <n1> haha
[17:03:05] <n1> being serious, i find it quite difficult with the quantity of information available and how much i (and everyone else) is exposed to every day - having to make the right decisions on what to retain.
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[17:03:38] <janrinok> Yep, it sure is a problem.
[17:03:41] <n1> especially when you know the information can be found again quite easily, there's little incentive to remember it if you're able to find it again without having to rely on your memory for the detail.
[17:05:00] <janrinok> I find I 'google' lots of things nowadays rather than try to dredge them up from memory. But we have conciously decided against programming phone numbers into the phone - once you do that you never remember them again and if you lose your phone it is a disaster!
[17:06:23] <n1> google can be better for me, because i can then at least see where the information came from, and if it's part of a discussion, i can reference the source rather than just saying 'i remember from what i read somewhere one time'.
[17:06:54] <n1> i can only remember my phone number, by sight i know others, but i wouldn't be able to dial them.
[17:07:10] <janrinok> you don't find yourself just saying 'Google says.....'?
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[17:10:18] <LaminatorX> I still remember my old school friends' parents' phone numbers, but have no clue what their current ones are.
[17:10:32] <nick> first BSOD in a while..... ¬_¬
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[17:11:13] <janrinok> which OS are you using?
[17:11:21] <n1> janrinok, to your earlier point... "google says..." not so much but it's probably better than "conspiracy theorist nutter at blogspot says..."
[17:11:30] <janrinok> lol
[17:12:35] <n1> this pc is windows7 btw
[17:16:12] * n1 looks forward to the day when his industry stops relying on windows for everything, especially "activex controls" for anything web based.
[17:17:30] <janrinok> I have all linux machines (8) except for 1 - which is win 7. I need it for testing some of my software.
[17:18:58] <n1> i've always had a mix, generally using linux for specific things rather than a everyday desktop, except when i've had PC's with minimal hardware resources then i'll use l/xubuntu.
[17:19:13] <LaminatorX> Win7 at least i can respect as a decent piece of workmanship, so of course they replaced it after just a few years. Best BSOD ever was the one during the Bejing Olympics opening ceremony while the torchbearer was swinging right past it and Gates was in the audience.
[17:19:33] <janrinok> I probably spend more time cursing the 1 win machine as I do all the others put together.
[17:20:13] <n1> it's too much of a struggle with work not to have windows7 - linux i can have in VM's, not so much the other way around.
[17:21:21] <n1> my business partner spends a lot of time cursing windows, weirdly for windows software and hardware not supporting OS X...
[17:21:35] <janrinok> LaminatorX: I missed that one! I refuse to 'upgrade' to win 8 as win 7 does what little I ask of a windows machine.
[17:22:09] <n1> i downgraded my laptop from win8 to win7 as soon as i got it, much like i downgraded my previous laptop from vista to xp.
[17:29:11] <janrinok> got to go for a while - later!
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[18:02:43] <Woods> We are moving people around this week, I just finished drawing out arrows to show who goes where, and it looks like a play you might see in American football.
[18:57:14] <LaminatorX> If you see any Os, tackle them.
[18:58:58] <LaminatorX> Speaking of everywhere-else football, St. Louis is getting a pro soccer team again and they're home field will be 1.5 from my house. :)
[18:59:34] <LaminatorX> "their"
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[19:44:47] <n1> wb janrinok
[19:44:53] <janrinok> thx
[19:45:07] <janrinok> anything stupendous happened in the last hour or two?
[19:45:55] <n1> not really - i'm feeling like a broken record after reading yet another house prices story.... apparently "London is up by nearly £80,000 so far in 2014, or £4,405 a week"
[19:47:51] <janrinok> That's almost as much as I paid in total for my house here!
[19:48:11] <n1> how can anyone expect to keep up with prices rising by £4,400 a week?
[19:48:50] <n1> being the average wage is still around £500 a week before tax.
[19:49:53] <janrinok> now, now, you know that the system isn't there for _your_ benefit - it's for the fat cats. And we don't qualify. Now, run along and make your business work so that you can be taxed more.....
[19:50:14] <n1> sad but true
[19:50:53] <janrinok> I think it was last week that I saw a 'flat' for sale in London for over 11 million!
[19:51:13] <janrinok> I nearly bought 2....
[19:51:35] <n1> thats quite cheap... "£170m London apartment may be world’s most expensive"
[19:51:59] <janrinok> it's a different world.
[19:52:38] <n1> the art world is doing good, i think it was last tuesday one of the big auction houses in NYC sold $745m of art on that one day.
[19:52:44] <LaminatorX> I saw a bunch of photos a while back of properties in New York side by side with comparibly priced castles.
[19:53:17] <janrinok> give me the castle any day - as long as it has a decent internet connection...
[19:53:21] <n1> LaminatorX, they run stories like that here too, comparing a london apartment with old castles and such for sale in the rest of the country
[19:53:34] <n1> or entire villages for sale in portugal and spain
[19:53:42] <LaminatorX> Mind you, the castles are in less walkable neighborhoods.
[19:54:02] <n1> LaminatorX, very true, although a castle has land you can probably live off.
[19:54:28] <n1> your apartment with decent transport links, not so much.
[19:56:11] <n1> i'll take some fresh air, trees and some open spaces.... one day
[19:56:16] <LaminatorX> I would put big city dumpster diving over subsistance farming from an effort:food ratio, actually.
[19:57:25] <n1> i don't disagree at all with that, but from a psychological point of view, living in a crowded city and being on the poverty line... i don't rate it.
[19:58:11] <LaminatorX> Farming is certainly more conducive to one's overall well-being, to be sure.
[19:58:32] <n1> if you have a castle out there somewhere with a little land, you can do some farming and push your produce to hipsters and whoever wants the organic feel good
[19:59:45] <paulej72> and if you own a castle you can have your serfs do all your farming for you :)
[19:59:56] <janrinok> hi paulej72
[20:00:02] <paulej72> hello
[20:00:06] <n1> lol, paulej72
[20:00:47] <LaminatorX> Although I do have fond memories of my penniless young roommates and I friends and I staking out the parking lot at the bagel shop at closing time, waiting for the employee closing up to trash the big plastic bag of a week's worth of stale bagels.
[20:01:09] <paulej72> off to MEETING
[20:01:30] <n1> LaminatorX, i imagine these days it's more likely the employees take them home rather than throwing them out.
[20:01:54] <n1> i'm sure thats what they do here, the employees are picking up things that would have been massively reduced or about to be thrown out
[20:01:56] <LaminatorX> A week's worth for us anyway. One day's worth of leftovers for the bagel shop.
[20:02:24] <LaminatorX> I'm sure the workers had their pick of the choicest leftovers.
[20:02:54] <n1> and we're now at the point, at least here, where having just a 'bagel' shop isn't economically viable, even having an independent bakery will struggle
[20:04:26] <n1> i read somewhere the other day, walmart is planning on smaller stores, which i was amazed they wern't doing already
[20:04:44] <LaminatorX> We also frequented a doughnut shop that would firesale the previous day's doughnuts at 11PM, all you can eat for a dollar. It also had a Ms. PacMan machine and a pay-phone. Heaven for someone with a 22-year old's metabolism and more time than money.
[20:05:45] <n1> hah yeah, i bet. sounds like a good time. they do that stuff at the music festivals, the 11pm 'everything must go' - but ive never seen it from an independent sandwich shop or bakery
[20:09:38] <n1> i was considering going into that kind of business, but was told it was essentially financial suicide to try and do anything involving cafe/food/bakery
[20:15:49] <LaminatorX> I know some people who've done it, but it very much depends on location and timing to be successful. If you're the first one to open in a formerly depressed but now thriving area for example, you can have a good run, until there are five more.
[20:18:21] <LaminatorX> Similarly one of the music clubs I work at added sandwiches a while back, and now recently added lunch hours. It's basically free monay for them since they're already paying for the space and it gets them better volume pricing on the ingredients.
[20:18:30] <n1> it's probably different over there, economic situations are different - here no matter where you are, you're competing against 4 different walmart style stores
[20:18:36] <n1> some will be small, some will be huge
[20:19:23] <n1> all competing on volume, against each other - the small business, has to deal with excessive rents and business rates as well as razor thin margins
[20:19:48] <LaminatorX> There are some places here like that, others not. Much depends on location.
[20:19:52] <n1> within a mile of me right now, there is at least 3 'megastores' of walmart proportions
[20:20:12] <n1> as well as probably 6 smaller ones
[20:20:17] <n1> they're all run by big corporations though
[20:20:23] <n1> none are independent
[20:20:57] <n1> there are independent stores here, but they cater to the ethnic communities, their speciality foods and such
[20:21:40] <n1> even the 'bakers' are just 1 of the 1700 that form a chain.
[20:21:57] <n1> also competing with the 'in house' bakeries of the megastores
[20:25:46] <janrinok> got to go guys. N1 - have a good trip to Germany, LaminatorX see you tomorrow I guess.
[20:26:02] <LaminatorX> G'night, Jan.
[20:26:55] <n1> take care, janrinok
[20:27:01] <janrinok> bye all
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[20:29:25] <LaminatorX> St. Louis has some interesting dynamics WRT space and money. We were the #2 city in the states in the 19th Century, but then got displaced by Chicago as rail transit superceeded river traffic. So we've got a lot of neglected but otherwise solid properties ready for someone to come and make into something.
[20:31:20] <n1> varies state by state but it does seem there are a lot more opportunities in the US for going out on your own
[20:31:41] <n1> and the space and affordability is a lot more realistic, giving people a chance to actually focus on a good product and service
[20:32:00] <LaminatorX> The big cities on the coasts are more like you described, with rediculous rents and so on.
[20:32:03] <n1> rather than having to compete directly with multinationals who have a million times the purchasing power, and can afford to run lots of things at a loss
[20:32:47] <n1> well yeah, i'd imagine NYC isn't going to be very friendly to it
[20:33:58] <LaminatorX> A lot of the big chains don't go into our depressed urban cores in the rust belt, though they do saturate the more affluent suburbs.
[20:35:08] <n1> they go everywhere here, and they often win by default at least in london because they have parking
[20:35:13] <n1> independent stores don't.
[20:36:44] <n1> most of the big chains now operate delivery services too
[20:36:52] <n1> so if you're out in the sticks, you can just get it delivered to your door
[20:37:45] <n1> i even went for a job doing the deliveries a few years ago - was told even though i was based in south London, i could be delivering groceries upto 150 miles away
[20:39:18] <n1> they did say though, because of the distance i'd probably not have to do the 50 drops a day or what ever it was 'normally'.
[20:40:35] <LaminatorX> If they paid you by the mile, that's a good day.
[20:41:45] <n1> yeah, they didn't. they supplied the vehicles and had ungodly amounts of trackers and cameras in them
[20:42:02] <LaminatorX> When I used to cab, the best runs were alwyas passengers for some small carrier that cancelled a flight to a regional airport ~200 miles away. Even riding back empty, that was a hell of a fare.
[20:42:09] <n1> so they would catch you if you did anything vaguely wrong, they would have all the readings from sensors, and camera footage
[20:42:54] <LaminatorX> Yikes.
[20:42:58] <n1> and you had 'zones' to follow, if you knew a better/back route to avoid traffic, it would send signals to the head office
[20:43:03] <n1> saying you'd deviated from your route
[20:43:13] <n1> i believe UPS uses the same system for that
[20:43:43] <LaminatorX> They are crazy for that stuff. They don't let their drivers make left turns if they can be avoided.
[20:43:46] <n1> ¬_¬ i'd really like to know why i got modded troll...
[20:44:00] <LaminatorX> Post?
[20:44:02] <n1> yeah, it was all that kind of shit.
[20:44:15] <n1> http://soylentnews.org
[20:44:45] <LaminatorX> Politics, all bets are off.
[20:44:49] <n1> i was commenting on the 'american spring' story as AC, made an addition which i forgot to tick AC. I can't see why that's trolling.
[20:45:15] <n1> true
[20:46:17] <Woods> n1: You said race and Obama in the same sentence.
[20:48:49] <n1> heh
[20:48:51] <LaminatorX> I hesitated on posting that story, but decided it was hilarious enough to roll with the grief.
[20:49:16] <n1> heh yeah
[20:50:03] <n1> cant say i was a fan of TMB's "i can mention race and obama as the first post on the story, but anyone else who does it in response is just distracting from the real point"
[20:54:22] <n1> however, we all have different perspectives on the subject - mine could well be one of ignorance and a fundamental misunderstanding of the birther movement.
[20:57:04] <LaminatorX> The birthers are basically 90%+ closet racists. Whatever legitimate criticisms of Obama that happen to get mixed in with their bigotry-fueled paranoid fantasies are entirely incidental.
[20:58:45] <LaminatorX> There are civil-liberty based critiques of the regime from the right from time to time that I can agree with, but they ring hollow in my ears since those critics didn't seem to mind when Bush pulled similar crap.
[20:59:31] <n1> that was my troll modded point, as i'm sure you figured. as someone who would have voted for obama and now wouldn't, i have my own opinions on him and have little to do with defending his actions.
[20:59:37] <n1> i couldn't agree more, LaminatorX
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