#editorial | Logs for 2014-04-21
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[17:27:26] <n1> hey, LaminatorX
[17:34:25] <n1> also, hey Woods
[17:34:40] <Woods> Hello!
[17:35:02] <n1> welcome to the editorial team :D
[17:35:35] <Woods> Thaaanks.
[17:35:35] <LaminatorX> Hey all around.
[17:36:00] <n1> long time, LaminatorX
[17:36:10] <n1> things going well?
[17:38:39] Bytram|afk is now known as Bytram
[17:39:01] <Bytram> hi all!
[17:39:13] * Bytram has a few minutes before getting ready for the day job
[17:39:19] <Bytram> Woods: welcome to the team!
[17:39:54] <Woods> Thanks, Bytram.
[17:40:40] <Bytram> your welcome! I've found folks here to be quite helpful; be sure to ask questions and we'll do what we can to help.
[17:41:42] <LaminatorX> I kind of had my head down while gearing up for some job hunting, but things are a bit more normal now.
[17:42:06] <Bytram> LaminatorX: glad to hear it! best of luck on the job search!!!!!!!!
[17:42:32] <Woods> Well, I WAS just bugging LaminatorX with everything, but I will ask my questions here.
[17:42:32] <LaminatorX> Thanks.
[17:43:00] <Bytram> LaminatorX: you're welcome!
[17:43:34] <Bytram> Woods: can't remember the URL offhand, but I was pointed at an article on the WIKI which really, *really* helped a lot.
[17:43:40] <LaminatorX> No bother, Woods, but the team as a whole is a great resource too.
[17:44:21] <Bytram> given the, ummm, "interesting" user-interface, there's sure to be some questions!
[17:44:48] <Woods> Haha, interesting indeed.
[17:46:16] <Bytram> hmmm, just noticed there is no "topic" for this channel.
[17:46:28] <n1> well i'm going to be around for today, so any questions today Woods
[17:46:31] <n1> i'll do my best to help :)
[17:46:48] <n1> Bytram, i think thats as a result of when the IRCd crashed last week or when ever
[17:47:46] <Bytram> .op
[17:48:03] <Bytram> LaminatorX: /topic http://wiki.soylentnews.org | http://wiki.soylentnews.org | http://en.wikipedia.org
[17:48:44] <Bytram> I don't seem to have enough magic powers to do it myself. =)
[17:48:49] <n1> I think xlefay likes making it complicated with all the bots here lol
[17:49:03] <Bytram> n1: hiya!
[17:49:09] <Bytram> yup, bots abound
[17:49:31] <Woods> Sounds good N1, now that you mention it... Crutchy submitted a "story" that is just a couple links to an article, should we write a summary for that?
[17:49:34] <n1> i mean we could just use nick/chanservs as they were designed but noooo, lets have some bots inbetween making things interesting!
[17:49:56] <n1> Woods, in those situations what i usually do
[17:50:04] <Bytram> n1: looks like you have .op privs, could you please set a topic for this channel?
[17:50:11] <Bytram> e.g.: /topic http://wiki.soylentnews.org | http://wiki.soylentnews.org | http://en.wikipedia.org
[17:50:13] <n1> is write a one sentence summary of the article, and include a blockquote from the article
[17:50:29] <Woods> Bytram: nope.
[17:50:37] <n1> "The BBC has an interesting article on blah blah"
[17:50:43] <n1> and then a blockquote
[17:50:52] <n1> .op
[17:50:52] -!- mode/#editorial [+o n1] by SkyNet
[17:51:26] n1 changed topic of #editorial to: http://wiki.soylentnews.org | http://wiki.soylentnews.org | http://en.wikipedia.org
[17:51:41] <Woods> Alright, sounds good.
[17:51:53] <Bytram> n1: muchos gracias, kimosabee
[17:52:14] <n1> i didn't know i had the power here, no one told me :p
[17:52:15] <Woods> Also, the site he linked to is fixed-width. Do we give him -1 point for that?
[17:52:17] <n1> .deop
[17:52:17] -!- mode/#editorial [-o n1] by SkyNet
[17:53:00] <n1> Woods, i wouldn't... I tend to use fixed width when i do some web design, dont hate me!
[17:53:02] <n1> :p
[17:53:10] <Woods> Nooo!
[17:53:39] <n1> but then i'm not a 'professional' web designer, so that's my excuse
[17:54:19] <Woods> I am the use-case that everyone has to worry about when designing fixed-width pages.
[17:54:30] <n1> which is
[17:54:36] <Woods> So, by the power vested in me by the internet, I hereby dock you 1 internets.
[17:55:36] <Woods> I keep my browser window slightly smaller than my monitor so I can still "work" while I work.
[17:56:03] <n1> ah
[17:56:19] <n1> well i'll redesign my websites just for you ;)
[17:57:05] <Woods> Aw shucks, thanks.
[17:57:07] <n1> i'm all about multiple monitors, seems to improve my workflow
[17:57:17] <LaminatorX> I do smaller windows at the office as well. Some stuff works, others, not so much.
[17:57:32] <n1> and when not working, or pretending to work it's nice to have a monitor for 'media'
[17:58:21] <Woods> I have two monitors, but one is where all my important stuff sits, I cannot cover THAT up.
[17:58:28] <LaminatorX> I appreciate that we've got a dark console look for the webchat. It blends in with actual console windows.
[17:58:32] <n1> i think it depends what you do with it... i spend most of my time between word processors, spreadsheets, pdfs and websites
[17:58:37] <n1> and smaller windows just frustrates me
[17:59:14] <n1> but with console windows, on the odd occasion i have to go there... it's a lot easier
[17:59:15] <Woods> Yeah, it is pretty annoying for a few of the sites I visit... Like PennyArcade, I have to maximize the window so I get the best experience.
[18:00:55] <n1> I don't know with most sites anymore, they dont seem designed for anything
[18:01:58] <n1> new site designs seem to be "we have a 'mobile' site which is shitty, so use that on your tablet or phone"
[18:02:15] <n1> "we also have a normal site, which we've tried to give the mobile experience, so that sucks too."
[18:02:34] <Woods> Ugh. You summed it up perfectly.
[18:03:05] <n1> i can't describe the anger i feel when i get forwarded to a 'mobile' site when i'm using my tablet or phone
[18:03:24] <n1> its the goddamn internet, it shouldn't matter
[18:03:27] <Bytram> n1++
[18:03:27] <deadbeef> karma - n1: 4
[18:03:52] <n1> wooo karma :P
[18:04:02] <n1> how are things, Bytram?
[18:04:03] <Bytram> !woop
[18:04:03] <deadbeef> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[18:04:29] <Woods> lol
[18:04:51] <Bytram> keeping too busy. need to be at day job in an hour and waiting for laundry to finish so I can get there presentably =)
[18:05:06] <Bytram> as opposed to absently? LOL!
[18:05:13] <n1> haha
[18:05:46] <Bytram> then again, one could argue that I'm not all there, anyway, so what's the difference?!!!
[18:06:12] <n1> i'm taking a day off today, it's a public holiday so i'm limited anyways.
[18:06:14] <n1> LOL
[18:06:36] <Woods> What holiday is it? I had no ida.
[18:06:39] <Bytram> btw, has anyone seen a windows prorgam I can download that lets me do grammar checking offline?
[18:07:11] <n1> Woods, it's easter from what I understand. I'm in the UK so your holidays may differ.
[18:07:23] <Bytram> I've got several texts I've accumulated over the years which were OCRed in; I've proofread them, manually, but wish I could
[18:07:36] <n1> libreoffice?
[18:07:46] <Bytram> feed them through something to flag potential problems.
[18:08:03] <n1> i'm pretty sure that has grammar checking
[18:08:06] <Bytram> I'd like to throw the WHOLE book at it, let it chew, and then show me the results.
[18:08:12] <n1> hmmm
[18:08:16] <Bytram> much like I can do with spell.exe
[18:08:29] <Bytram> cat book.txt | spell
[18:08:42] <Bytram> cat book.txt | grammar_check
[18:09:18] <Woods> n1: Nawwww, Easter was yesterday, you mean to tell me you get the day after Easter off?
[18:09:19] <Bytram> the source files are actually in html, but I can clean that up readily enough by using: lynx -print foo.html > foo.txt
[18:09:55] <Bytram> I looked at libreoffice a while ago, but what I saw only did real-time checking, as I typed it in.
[18:09:58] <n1> Woods, in the UK, Easter results in a friday and monday public holiday
[18:10:15] <n1> so for many regular jobs, you get a 4 day weekend
[18:10:49] <LaminatorX> This is also Grounation Day, the anniversary of Hailie Selassie's visit to Jamaica.
[18:10:53] <n1> Bytram, i think it will still check if you import the data
[18:11:09] <n1> well that is interesting and something I didn't know
[18:11:19] <Bytram> hrmmm, I'll have to give it another try.
[18:11:38] <Bytram> was disappointed by my first attempts with it.
[18:11:53] <n1> don't hold me to it, but after a quick look i can't see any other options for offline
[18:12:15] <LaminatorX> They call it that because the Emperor wanked on the ground rather than the red carpet that was provided for him at the airstrip.
[18:12:26] <n1> he wanked did he?
[18:12:29] <Bytram> n1: yeah, I've spent the best part of an hour searching the net. Most everything seems to be on-line or an office-like-app addon.
[18:12:50] <LaminatorX> Woops, sacrelige via typo.
[18:12:57] <n1> for shame!
[18:13:02] <Bytram> there is a program for unix called "diction", but I've been unable, so far, to find a windows binary I could download.
[18:13:18] <Woods> Whaaaaaaaa?!! I get like 7 holidays per year. Can you send me some of yours, n1?
[18:13:48] <n1> Woods, i'm self-employed
[18:13:52] <n1> so I don't get them
[18:14:01] <Woods> Ah
[18:14:03] <Woods> Well.
[18:14:14] <n1> just means I get restricted in the work I can do, because the rest of the supply chain and everything else is closed
[18:14:17] <Bytram> gotta check the laundry; back later.
[18:14:24] <Woods> I see
[18:14:24] <n1> take it easy, Bytram
[18:14:29] <mattie_p> Bytram, this diction?
[18:14:30] <mattie_p> https://www.gnu.org
[18:14:43] <n1> less and less people are actually getting the public holidays now
[18:14:45] <mattie_p> why not just try to compile under cygwin?
[18:15:10] <n1> but in theory, there are 8 'public/bank holidays' in England
[18:15:23] <Woods> Yeah, this company I work for does travel insurance, so we HAVE to be open as much as possible, especially during holidays. I am lucky we get those of at all.
[18:15:30] <n1> and if you're an 'employee' you're likely to get 25 days paid vacation ontop of that
[18:15:38] <Bytram> mattie_p: I tried D/Ling cygwin years ago; botched up my system so bad, took me a week to get it running right again. I've since D/Led several sets of Unix tools and can't fathom taking that risk again.
[18:15:47] <Woods> Nice, pretty decent setup.
[18:15:58] <n1> its one that is slowly being chipped away though
[18:16:02] <mattie_p> Bytram strange, I've had no problems with cygwin in my windows box
[18:16:03] <Bytram> n1: but, of course, they cut your hourly pay just enough to give it back to you on your vacation. =)
[18:16:12] <n1> by the 'business' and 'profit' culture
[18:16:26] <n1> so employment contracts are no longer what they used to be
[18:17:08] <n1> depends on your situation, but it usually works ok
[18:17:14] <n1> especially if you're on a low/minimum wage
[18:17:29] <n1> but it gives you the 'right' to having time off, which is the most important
[18:17:30] <LaminatorX> Hey, n1. I'm making a couple changes to the headline for the ethanol story. "Than" shouldn't be capitalized, and we want to avoid "Bettrige's Law" headlines.
[18:17:44] <Bytram> mattie_p: glad to hear it worked for you; once bitten twice shy, here. I'd only try it again if I had a spare box to practice on.
[18:17:48] <n1> rather than the "sure, you can take a week or two off, unpaid of course, but there might not be a job when you come back."
[18:17:52] <Bytram> gtg
[18:17:59] <n1> LaminatorX, noted
[18:20:12] <n1> but while the UK tries to make itself 'business' and 'investment' friendly... we're in the process of removing the workers rights
[18:22:57] <n1> oh LaminatorX, i'm thinking about making a submission today but i might not be able to find a direct source to link for the submission because the article I want to submit is only available in printed media, not online
[18:23:35] <LaminatorX> Surprising to hear in this day and age.
[18:23:49] <n1> yeah
[18:23:49] <LaminatorX> What's the source?
[18:24:13] <n1> http://en.wikipedia.org
[18:25:04] <n1> i have a paid for subscription
[18:25:56] <n1> im checking it's not on their website at all
[18:26:16] <LaminatorX> If you can find a substantial secondary source that refences it, that would be helpful. If the story is hot, other outlets should start to pick it up too.
[18:26:57] <LaminatorX> If you include a link to a paywalled article, note it in a parenthetical.
[18:27:24] <n1> I will try and find something, but the stories they run with are generally not picked up by the mainstream, sometimes they are years late
[18:27:38] <n1> a good example recently being a sexual abuse by a UK MP they reported in the 70's
[18:27:48] <n1> only got picked up by the mainstream a couple of years ago
[18:28:00] <LaminatorX> This sounds intrigueing. I look forward to seeing it.
[18:28:04] <Woods> n1: Could you type it up? Or would that break some rules?
[18:28:26] <n1> i'm not sure, i was going to do my own summary and a couple of quotes
[18:28:49] <n1> it's about Cambridge University declining to publish a study on Russia for purely political reasons, even noting the research was sound.
[18:29:59] <LaminatorX> Hunger calls. I'll "see" you in a little while.
[18:30:03] LaminatorX is now known as LaminatorX|Out2lunch
[18:30:07] <n1> laters, LamX
[18:31:16] <n1> according to Cambridge, it's libellous to suggest Putin did any spying when he worked for the KGB
[18:32:18] <n1> or discuss links between Putin and the corrupt mayor of st petersberg in the 90's
[18:33:06] <n1> or suggest that the Russian government has links to organized crime, despite that being part of the reasoning for the international community to impose sanctions on Russia.
[18:34:06] <Woods> Sounds pretty juicy.
[18:34:15] <n1> http://www.indexoncensorship.org
[18:35:09] <n1> apparently russians use english courts for defamation cases, and cambridge doesn't want to be the target of one of them
[18:35:17] <n1> even if the study is on solid ground
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[18:37:13] <n1> hey mrcoolbp
[18:37:19] <mrcoolbp> hi
[18:37:35] <n1> feeling any better today?
[18:38:58] <mrcoolbp> about the rejection thing yes, but now people are considering restarting the name-vote....again
[18:39:17] <n1> wtf
[18:39:28] <n1> seriously, W T F
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[18:41:51] <xlefay> Woods, ? ;)
[18:42:45] <n1> unfortunately, being abused by xlefay is something we all had to go through...
[18:43:17] <xlefay> It's not that bad! And didn't you say it was consensual? ;)
[18:43:31] <n1> well you consent to it when you join staff
[18:43:35] <n1> so yes, technically.
[18:43:53] <xlefay> :P
[18:43:58] <n1> ;)
[18:44:02] <xlefay> hows you n1?
[18:44:30] <n1> not too bad, having a lazy day, fuck work.
[18:44:32] <n1> yourself?
[18:44:38] <xlefay> I don't have a lot of time, I can't remember when I last slept (thursday or friday maybe?) so I oughta sleep soon
[18:45:41] <n1> yeah, you need to
[18:45:57] <n1> i slept like shit the last couple nights, but i did get some at least
[18:46:28] <xlefay> I've been excited about a project I'm working on, I *might* have lost track of time a bit
[18:47:09] <Woods> Xlefay: ! :(
[18:47:11] <n1> thats good, but you still need sleep
[18:47:26] <n1> i make the mistake sometimes, get into what ever im working on and think i'll work through the night
[18:47:30] <n1> it doesnt usually make things better
[18:47:48] <mattie_p> woods you need to register your username so we can give you a staff cloak
[18:48:03] <xlefay> Woods, essentially: /msg nickserv register password e-mail
[18:48:15] <Woods> Oh, that thing is is always telling me to do?
[18:48:25] <mrcoolbp> yup that
[18:48:33] <xlefay> since you're using the webchat, next time instead of just clicking connect, click "identify to services" check box first
[18:48:41] <Woods> Done.
[18:48:47] <Woods> K
[18:49:11] <xlefay> Remember, you must always identify withing 60 seconds after connecting (if you click the identify to service, it'll be done for you) or you'll be renamed to Soycow
[18:49:55] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Woods] by SkyNet
[18:49:59] <xlefay> Woods, almost done ;-)
[18:50:28] <xlefay> Can you: /hs take Soylent/Staff/Editor/$account
[18:50:35] <xlefay> (leave it entirely, as is)
[18:50:52] -!- Woods has quit [Changing host]
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[18:51:02] <Woods> k
[18:51:14] <mrcoolbp> welcome aboard Woods
[18:51:24] <Woods> Woohooo!
[18:51:29] <xlefay> Great! :) So you're nick's all set up, you've got a sexy looking hostname; how about we set up an e-mail account for you while we're at it? ;-)
[18:51:39] <n1> i have to run to the shop, damn public holiday opening hours >:
[18:51:40] <Woods> Sounds great.
[18:51:58] <xlefay> If you or anyone else ever needs IRC assistance in the future, #help is the place to be.
[18:52:10] <xlefay> alrighty, woods@soylentnews.org ? ;)
[18:52:17] <n1> i wouldnt need IRC assistance if it wasnt for all your damn bots :p
[18:52:20] <Woods> Perfect.
[18:52:34] <xlefay> n1, I have exactly 0 bots of my own ;-)
[18:52:46] <Woods> His bots are pilfered.
[18:52:53] <Woods> Perloined.
[18:53:00] * n1 thinks xlefay is playing semantics
[18:53:03] <Woods> etc
[18:53:07] <xlefay> Well. I am writing a bot actually, but that one will be awesomely simple ;-)
[18:53:21] <n1> lol
[18:53:22] <xlefay> That way we can get rid of a few stupid and brain dead bots and actually have one that makes sense!
[18:53:29] <Woods> Will it come up with more p-starting words that are synonyms for stealing?
[18:53:46] <mattie_p> pilfer, purloin?
[18:53:54] <Woods> Because I really need that functionality.
[18:54:11] <Woods> Aww, spelling. :(
[18:54:15] <xlefay> mattie_p, PM please
[18:54:29] <mattie_p> plunder?
[18:54:38] <xlefay> poutine?
[18:54:40] <Woods> Plunder! Nice.
[18:54:56] <mrcoolbp> pick-pocket
[18:55:17] <xlefay> Woods, PM please
[18:55:52] <xlefay> Woods, please do note, since you're using the webchat, you first need to open a PM window to someone before you actually see their messages in PM properly
[18:56:08] <xlefay> so in the future, you might want to consider a real IRC client (one which is sensible)
[18:56:18] * mrcoolbp aggrees with xlefay
[18:56:21] <mattie_p> plunder was my 9-year old daughter's idea
[18:56:37] <Woods> Aw dang it, outsmarted by a 9 year old.
[18:56:58] <mattie_p> well, she's an awfully bright 9-year old
[18:58:13] <mattie_p> could use 'procure' in quotes as well
[18:58:21] <Woods> mmhmm
[18:59:43] <mattie_p> thesaurus.com suggests pillage, pinch, pirate, and poach
[19:00:02] <mattie_p> also plagiarize, for IP
[19:01:31] <mattie_p> If you can't get a good headline from those suggestions, I don't know what is wrong with the world
[19:02:26] <Woods> Oh, I do not need it for a headline. I just like words.
[19:02:41] <mattie_p> oh, cool
[19:03:14] <Woods> And I like to be snarky.
[19:03:28] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, :o
[19:03:55] <xlefay> you agreeing with me AGAIN.. please tell me this is just another coincidental occurrence :p
[19:04:19] <mrcoolbp> won't happen again buddy = )
[19:04:27] <xlefay> haha :P
[19:04:50] <Woods> Wait, did you just agree that it will not happen again? Careful there, Mrcoolbp.
[19:05:13] <mrcoolbp> crap
[19:05:27] <mrcoolbp> !grab Woods
[19:05:27] <deadbeef> Added quote 3
[19:06:17] <mattie_p> oh, the seldomly used #editorial !grab
[19:07:12] <mrcoolbp> yup
[19:07:27] <xlefay> Ok, Woods's set up for the most part, IRC + he's aware of the secret awesomenauts channel, email, mailing list, kerberos, staff-slash; did I forget something?
[19:09:32] <mrcoolbp> sounds like you hit everything
[19:09:48] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: you should help me write a "welcome packet" for new staff
[19:09:59] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, yeah I've been planning on doing that for ages now
[19:10:15] <mrcoolbp> it would save you time in the future
[19:10:41] <mrcoolbp> Woods, I'm guessing you were linked to the "Story Style" doc on the wiki already?
[19:10:51] <Woods> I was, yes.
[19:10:58] <xlefay> I bet it'd save everyone time, I'm going to look into some perl soon and I'll try to see if I can hack it's auth a bit that it'll auto create kerberos users for the staff-slash
[19:11:03] <Woods> I have it tattooed to the back of my hands, actually.
[19:11:13] <mrcoolbp> heh
[19:11:16] <xlefay> but that might require some kerberos stuff directly *sighs* ;-)
[19:11:41] <mattie_p> ouch
[19:11:59] <xlefay> Woods, woa, dedicated, I like it!
[19:12:12] <xlefay> So, out of curiosity, how does that work with revisions?
[19:12:38] <Woods> Xlefay: Tattoo removal/readdition...
[19:12:42] <Woods> Pain is just weakness/revisions leaving the body.
[19:13:18] <xlefay> hmm ha
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[19:30:34] -!- Woods has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[19:35:55] LaminatorX|Out2lunch is now known as LaminatorX
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[19:37:26] -!- mode/#editorial [+v Woods] by SkyNet
[19:52:17] <n1> did i miss anything?
[19:54:52] <Woods> I got a plus sign in front of my name.
[19:54:59] <Woods> Polish notation got nothing on me.
[19:55:21] <LaminatorX> Drink deeply the draught of power.
[19:55:35] <n1> rofl
[19:56:03] <Woods> I am sure I will never use it except for that notation joke.
[19:56:25] <n1> since i've been here, there's been 0 trouble
[19:56:40] <n1> there's only been relatively minor trouble in #Soylent
[19:56:43] <n1> we're all quite good natured
[19:57:11] <LaminatorX> Voice doesn't mean much except on #staff.
[19:57:39] <Woods> Maybe your infamous reputation proceeded you?
[20:00:33] -!- n1|away [n1|away!~nick@95.211.syp.zsi] has joined #editorial
[20:00:40] n1|away is now known as nick
[20:00:47] -!- nick has quit [Changing host]
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[20:00:47] -!- mode/#editorial [+v nick] by SkyNet
[20:00:59] <nick> stupid internets
[20:01:03] -!- n1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[20:01:07] nick is now known as n1
[20:02:49] <Woods> While you were gone, we all shared hilarious anecdotes, you missed it.
[20:02:58] <n1> damn :(
[20:03:09] <n1> the moment has passed, now back to watching the tumbleweed
[20:03:15] <Woods> yup
[20:04:06] <n1> so what possessed you to join us here
[20:04:31] <Woods> Oh, umm....
[20:04:43] <Woods> I forget who, but someone said "Hey, join #editorial"
[20:04:52] <Woods> har har har
[20:05:07] <n1> lol, you know what i mean!
[20:05:26] <Woods> I am on SN for the entirity of my work day, and being a new site, I figured it could use some extra help.
[20:05:44] <Woods> If I am going to critique people for their spelling/grammar, I might as well make it useful.
[20:06:27] <n1> it's always good to have another set of eyes, sometimes we miss the obvious, i know i do, especially when editing while half asleep
[20:06:42] <Woods> Exactly, it happens.
[20:07:07] <Woods> And I promise to only silently judge you for it.
[20:07:12] <n1> haha
[20:07:31] <Woods> (And mark it in my diary)
[20:07:56] <Woods> "Dear diary, today, n1 made a mistake," etc.
[20:08:16] <n1> might as well just put that in every day and make a note of what it was for each day ;)
[20:08:36] <Woods> Haha, nnaaaaahhhhh. I believe in you.
[20:08:52] <n1> I'm still learning english, I don't know if i'll ever stop really, as language and usage of it is always evolving.
[20:09:32] <Woods> I assume that means it is not your first language. You seem to have a perfect grasp of it.
[20:09:51] <n1> Oh no, it is my first language. I came quite late to actually giving a shit though.
[20:10:00] <Woods> Ah
[20:10:26] <Woods> I hear that. I only started caring in my late teens, when chatting was getting big.
[20:10:51] <n1> Same for me really. The internet and communicating online which was what gave me the actual interest.
[20:10:51] <Woods> I had a friend that always used correct grammar and punctuation, and it made me feel like a child when I did not.
[20:11:24] <Woods> Unfortunately, English is just the dumbest language in use. So there is always something to be wrong about, horray.
[20:11:38] <n1> in spoken language people can't tell you're making spelling mistakes. when you're chatting online, they damn well can.
[20:11:46] <Woods> Yarp
[20:12:16] <n1> As much as I have a reasonable grasp of English, knowing that I still learn all the time, it makes it very hard for me to think I could learn another language.
[20:12:52] <Woods> Haha, no way, those other languages are simple comparatively speaking.
[20:13:07] <Woods> Just using the phrase "Rules of the English language" is almost laughable.
[20:13:42] <n1> I agree. There is no right way, as it's always been evolving.
[20:14:00] <n1> There is the most common usage at the time, and that's about it as far as i'm concerned
[20:14:18] <Woods> mmhmm
[20:14:20] -!- weeds [weeds!~4118a13c@cwz-29-45-637-17.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #editorial
[20:14:48] <Woods> Plus, throw in "Internetspeak" as I call it, and everything gets all jacked up.
[20:14:54] <LaminatorX> Years ago, I worked at a camera shop. I would often walk up to a crouded counter and say, "May I help whomever is next?" The simultaneous use of "whom" and the subjunctive often made the customers' brains freeze up for a moment.
[20:15:02] <n1> if it didn't evolve, shakespear wouldn't be revered
[20:15:55] <Woods> I have found that people are stunned any time you use "whom" correctly.
[20:16:07] <Woods> Or, I suppose, at all.
[20:16:35] <n1> It's not exactly in common use right now
[20:16:46] <n1> makes me think LaminatorX worked in a camera shop in an old english village
[20:16:53] <Woods> lol
[20:17:16] <LaminatorX> No, but I do have a tweed blazer.
[20:17:38] <Woods> I think that counts.
[20:17:51] <n1> secretly thats what you want, to become an english gentleman
[20:18:10] <LaminatorX> It helps me impersonate a professor on a regular basis as well.
[20:18:36] <n1> a lack of style makes one an authority on all things academic :p
[20:19:21] <LaminatorX> The only thing undermining my credibility is my excellent vision.
[20:19:43] <Woods> Lady Gaga == Savant?
[20:20:12] <n1> You never know...
[20:20:25] <n1> LaminatorX, get some non-prescription glasses just for the effect
[20:20:32] <n1> so you can take them on and off as you make your point
[20:20:46] <LaminatorX> I think she rolls the odometer around from rediculous to trend-setting.
[20:21:35] <Woods> I can attest to the effectiveness of fake glasses.
[20:21:51] <n1> Lady Gaga has the living breathing fashion show thing... Where as most things on the catwalk get tamed down for general consumption, she uses it as it was designed without any practicality or comfort in mind.
[20:22:53] <LaminatorX> I used to wear sunglasses on stage a lot, not primarily for style or stage lights, but so people couldn't tell how much I looked at my hands while playing.
[20:23:12] <Woods> Hm. I had something to say, but I am not sure if I want to beat my previous "Most ridiculous thing I have ever said" record.
[20:23:23] <n1> LaminatorX, looking too much to be 'cool'?
[20:23:44] <LaminatorX> More to keep my shame a private matter.
[20:24:07] <Woods> No shame in that, mate.
[20:24:22] <n1> quite, I think it shows more care in the art
[20:24:30] <Woods> I was about to say something similar.
[20:24:40] <n1> i'm assuming guitar, LaminatorX?
[20:25:00] <LaminatorX> In those days, yeah. Now I mostly play banjo.
[20:25:47] <n1> Just made me think of Steve Howe from the band Yes, his eyes always seem glued to the fretboard
[20:26:03] <LaminatorX> I'm actually in a band that sets the lyrics to the songs in Tolkien to old tyme string band music.
[20:26:25] <Woods> Sounds promising.
[20:27:10] <n1> I have never read any Tolkien, there's actually songs written in his books?
[20:27:58] <LaminatorX> Lots of lyrics. He conveyed a fair bit of setting back-story that way. It works surprisingly well, or at least surprising until you consider that he was emulating a folk music tradition.
[20:28:00] <Woods> Woah dude, yes.
[20:28:43] <n1> that is interesting, probably a better way for me to get into it than actually reading the books.
[20:28:54] <Woods> Tolkien wrote LOTR just so he could develop languages and histories for races of people that never existed. (Sources say)
[20:29:26] <n1> i know it's a crime for a nerd or what ever, but i'm generally not into that kind of stuff.
[20:29:39] <Woods> No worries, I already recorded the incident.
[20:29:56] <n1> I assumed so ;)
[20:30:40] <n1> I read a lot of non-fiction and although there's good social commentary in those genres, I find it hard to make such dramatic leaps into other worlds for the sake of that commentary.
[20:34:44] <Woods> What do you read?
[20:37:03] <n1> mostly non-fiction on the subjects of politics and economics
[20:37:44] <n1> thats given me reason to read more into history to understand the political and economic norms of today
[20:38:17] <Woods> Hm, why do you find those things interesting?
[20:40:26] <n1> because those things shape the world we live in, economics rules our lives (depending on geographic location) and my goal is to understand the mechanics of it.
[20:42:06] <n1> our political landscape is designed by people who have their ideologies shaped by things that happened before I was born, I don't have the emotional investment in it, which hopefully means I can understand it objectively and learn from it, hopefully avoiding being sucked into partisan political thought.
[20:44:52] <Woods> Forgive me for asking this again, but why do you care about it?
[20:48:50] <n1> I feel like I don't have a choice... I run my own business so when government says and does things, how does that affect me, what historical comparisons can be made? I like the idea of personal and political freedoms and witness a lot of people believing political rhetoric but failing to actually read the legislation.
[20:49:54] <Woods> Aaahhhh, it all makes sense now. Has it really helped you in the past though?
[20:50:59] <n1> I don't know, it's made me more aware, probably not happier. It's more a long term game though really, so I can have a relatively secure life in the future.
[20:52:04] <Woods> I hear seeing behind the curtain can have that affect on people.
[20:52:15] <n1> That's a problem I have with it though, you can be happier to listen to the rhetoric and leave it there. Analysis of the legislation behind it not so much.
[20:52:34] <n1> Talking to older generations of my family, you get the "the idea of this is to do x"
[20:52:43] <n1> totally ignoring what the law involved actually enables
[20:52:52] <n1> just listening to the PR campaign around it
[20:53:41] <LaminatorX> Have you ever read any Robert Altemeyer?
[20:53:45] <Woods> Yikes
[20:54:04] <n1> or the political speak which makes data which are just 'projections/predictions' seem a reality - in a variation on a story from yesterday about misleading visualisations
[20:54:27] <n1> i dont believe so, LaminatorX
[20:54:56] <Woods> I forgot to check that story, thanks for the reminder.
[20:55:15] <n1> I had an interesting discussion with someone I know regarding their recent appointment as 'PR consultant' for a major UK political party
[20:56:15] <n1> he asked them about "engaging with the public and party members" to help form policy, and was told very clearly "we have a message, we don't need any other input"
[20:56:33] <LaminatorX> He's a sociologist at U. of Manitoba. His specialty is the psychology of right-wing authoritarian followers. He digs in to a whole lot of cognative blinds that underlie things like evaluating truth via degree of identification with the messenger.
[20:57:06] <n1> that does sound interesting
[20:57:12] <n1> thats for sharing
[20:57:19] <LaminatorX> He wrote a layman's abstract pdf of his work: https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca
[20:57:33] <n1> great
[20:59:02] <n1> Woods, this interest is why i have a subscription to Private Eye, which made me aware of the story about Cambridge/Russia. It has to be carefully considered when to read it though, as it is all just very concise and depressing.
[20:59:39] <Woods> Understandable. I look forward to your post about it.
[21:02:05] <Woods> Honestly though, this is all way outside of my expertise, I doubt I will be able to follow much. But I promise to read it!
[21:16:40] <n1> heh
[21:16:53] <n1> im pissed now, my day trip to france is in tatters >:
[21:18:48] <Woods> :\
[21:25:04] <n1> i was supposed to be going to lille to see some live music
[21:25:18] <n1> however, just went to book the tickets and i cant seem to find them available anywhere
[21:25:25] <Woods> Ooohhh, what kind of music?
[21:30:14] <LaminatorX> I was at a neat show Saturday night. Five bands all doing Prince covers, in celebration of his finally getting the rights to his rongs back from Warner Music.
[21:30:35] <LaminatorX> "songs"
[21:33:34] <n1> Woods, its a hiphop group we're planning to see, cunninlynguists
[21:34:21] <Woods> :D
[21:34:25] <Woods> Sounds awesome
[21:34:31] <Woods> (If their name is any indication)
[21:36:36] <LaminatorX> They should open for Doc Gyneco.
[21:43:34] <n1> lol
[21:50:31] <Woods> That Ask Soylent story coming up should be interesting.
[21:51:17] <weeds> Good "afternoon"
[21:51:41] <LaminatorX> Hi, weeds.
[21:55:41] <weeds> How's you day been, LaminatorX?
[21:55:50] <weeds> your*
[21:56:00] <LaminatorX> Relaxed for a change. It's quite refreshing.
[21:56:44] <weeds> Same, no frantic calls or issues. Checking in some fixes and new features...
[21:58:51] <weeds> LaminatorX: I have some observations about recent stories and would like to ask you about them. Do you have a few minutes?
[21:59:05] <LaminatorX> Ask away.
[22:09:37] * n1 is also curious
[22:10:38] <weeds> Seems we are posting a fair number of political stories lately. In one I saw feedback saying, "is this news for nerds" questioning the amount of political stories
[22:10:52] <weeds> Sorry I am at work
[22:11:01] <LaminatorX> Sure.
[22:12:07] <weeds> makes for a slow conversation
[22:12:09] <n1> I understand their point, but it's a hard one to call, if we get political submissions, and I also think the 'stuff that matters' is as important as it being 'news for nerds'
[22:12:52] <n1> when we have had lots of hardcore 'nerd/science' stuff, people don't comment.
[22:13:07] <weeds> and to that I tend to agree. Nerds are interested in more than just technical issues, hence the beer post?
[22:13:32] <weeds> and the pork shortage post :-\
[22:13:50] <n1> as much as i am interested in politics, i have no desire to see this become a website focused on it
[22:13:55] <n1> and we work with the submissions we get
[22:14:17] <LaminatorX> Looking back over the most recent 40 stories, I see 3-4 that I would call political.
[22:14:32] <n1> using an example i mentioned about this the other day, the "Intolerance" story had nearly 200 comments
[22:14:46] <n1> but there were 3 of them that thought it shouldnt have been posted, it isn't news for nerds
[22:14:59] <n1> but there was over 100 comments where people seemed quite happy to discuss it
[22:15:20] <n1> follow that with some hardcore science, rarely is there anything to contribute.
[22:15:28] <LaminatorX> We have had more recently than is perhaps average over the past few months, but it doesn't seem like we're drowning out sci-tech in favor of social commentary.
[22:18:01] <LaminatorX> We do want to maintain focus overall, but there is room for some variety along with that. I advocate, submissions permitting, for about 70%sci-tec stories, with the remainder a mix of things our comminity might find engaging for whatever reason.
[22:18:17] <weeds> Fair enough. (btw, I don't have a problem with it. Recall that I posted the union-college football story) NC talked about multiple sites, but I think one site with categories a member could subscribe to would be ideal.
[22:18:29] <n1> I agree with LaminatorX
[22:18:56] <n1> i think that can be done already, on SN
[22:19:00] <LaminatorX> It never hurts to talk these things out. :)
[22:19:24] <Woods> The more you know... ----====*
[22:19:37] <weeds> Just throwing my own observations out there.
[22:20:03] <n1> always welcome, weeds.
[22:20:11] <n1> personally, i try to please everyone, as futile as it may be
[22:20:27] <LaminatorX> We will likely have pages in the furute like "science.soylentnews.org" and "business.soylentnews.org" that have more depth within their specific topics, while only the cream hit the main page. At the moment though, we don't have the volume to support that.
[22:20:43] <LaminatorX> "future"
[22:21:07] <n1> i've posted a few stories about social media, which i'm sure some people think i'm shilling for them, even though IRC and SN is as close as i get to social networks.
[22:21:26] <n1> just because i stay well clear doesn't mean it's not relevant
[22:23:39] <Woods> I cannot wait for the astronomy branch.
[22:23:43] <n1> problem we have is everyone has their own ideas about what is 'nerd' relevant
[22:24:31] <n1> as discussed earlier, i couldn't give two shits about whats going on in the world of science fiction, but for many that is hugely important and interesting, something which to them, defines them as a nerd.
[22:26:56] <LaminatorX> With 4000+ registered and who knows how many anonymous visitors, it is likely that there will be a at least a few people who don't care for any given story. I remain a bit puzzled by the impulse to click through and leave a comment to that effect rather than simply scrolling down to a more appealing story, but our community is self-selected for emphatic expression of displeasure, guven our origin.
[22:27:19] <n1> and on the other side of it... when it comes to 'tech' stories, it's too easy to be accused of advertising/shilling.
[22:27:57] <n1> LaminatorX, i do agree. Some people seem very keen to take the time out to tell us we're wasting their time, when you know, there's another dozen or more stories today you could look at instead.
[22:28:43] <LaminatorX> I'm happy that they at least give a damn.
[22:29:48] <n1> yeah, that's true. people seem to be invested in the site surviving. it's been also pleasant to read registered users and AC's defending the editorial decisions.
[22:38:31] <weeds> AGree, but we are trying to hit a particular demographic still, right?
[22:39:41] <n1> in my opinion, the demographic is self-selecting by the submissions
[22:39:59] <LaminatorX> Sure, although we are looking to take it a bit more corner-office with out new SoylentBI and SoylentCloud feature sections.
[22:40:04] * LaminatorX ducks!
[22:40:06] <n1> lol
[22:40:35] <n1> got to get those MBA's on side
[22:41:28] <weeds> :-) better run before the torches are lit! LaminatorX
[22:42:13] <weeds> n1: but not everyone is a submitter and not all submissions make it - so there is some selection process
[22:42:20] <LaminatorX> There's already rumblings of an exodus to PlanetoftheApesNews.org.
[22:42:31] <weeds> ?
[22:42:48] <weeds> damn apes!
[22:43:42] <LaminatorX> Yelling Charleton Heston seems to be the defining archetype of our time.
[22:44:50] <n1> weeds, you are right, but it is still the primary factor in the direction.
[22:45:46] <weeds> I have to run - big game for the Blue jackets tonight. Thank you for your time. It's my opinion that the best adjunct tool for drawing the community together is IRC. We should point people to it right off the main page. Real time discussion is so much closer to social.
[22:46:05] <LaminatorX> More seriously, there is some selection going on, but the port-rate is over 80%.
[22:46:38] <LaminatorX> Is I see a quality submission, that tells me that at least one member cared about it, and it's a decent bet that that wasn't the only one.
[22:47:20] <n1> Factual inaccuracies or poor sourcing are the primary reasons i'll reject
[22:47:40] <n1> but if i can find better sources, i'll use them instead of what ever obscure blog the submitter used.
[22:47:52] <LaminatorX> ^^^
[22:48:20] <weeds> THat is good to hear since there are a lot of stories that have the "research" or "study" keyword in them that looks to be a good way to get in?
[22:48:22] <LaminatorX> I'm actually a little touched that a few bloggers have attempted to game us for traffic.
[22:48:45] <n1> weeds, I always try and link the study in those, people can make their own decision
[22:48:57] <n1> i'm not qualified to review each studies academic credentials.
[22:49:38] <LaminatorX> We've gotten a bit of pure crankery, but not much, thankfully.
[22:50:14] <n1> It can be difficult, some people make some good submissions, but they're also quite opinionated, which I think is to help drive conversation.
[22:50:45] <n1> In my observations though, the conversation ends up being how it shouldn't be posted because of the personal opinion included in the submission
[22:50:46] <LaminatorX> I'll take a clear point of view over stealth-slant any day.
[22:51:05] <n1> so you edit it out, and then no one picks up on the discussion that could have happened.
[22:51:38] <weeds> DO you (either of you) frown on a submitter posting on their own story to give their opinion? I too think the submitter's opinion should not be in the main story.
[22:52:19] <weeds> We are not a true news organization, but we should keep reporting separated from opinion.
[22:53:31] <LaminatorX> I'm OK with it, up to a point. The byline at the top clearly states who is doing the talking. It also helps if the opinion angle is framed as a call to debate the topic.
[22:54:05] <LaminatorX> I have rejected or toned down things that I found to be outright inflammatory though.
[22:56:05] <weeds> "It also helps if the opinion angle is framed as a call to debate the topic" agreeing with that.
[22:56:26] <weeds> ok, really taking off - thanks again. have a good "evening".
[22:56:31] -!- weeds has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[23:03:47] <n1> it is very much a balance, it needs to be constructive if it's opinion
[23:05:07] <LaminatorX> Right. Opinion presented as such provides context to the rest of the presentation. Opinion presented as fact or in a propagandistic fashion is a problem.
[23:06:15] <n1> things slip through but generally I think we're hitting the right balance
[23:06:52] <n1> I don't know if you saw, but a story you posted the other day had a link to thepiratebay as an alternative to watching the show on cable or a streaming service
[23:07:28] <n1> couple of people pointed out that wasn't very professional and i couldn't help but agree so i removed the link.
[23:09:46] <LaminatorX> Sad truth is I don't even remember this story. There've been a couple nights recently where I queued things up before bed when my eyes were halfway shut.
[23:10:03] <LaminatorX> Thanks for correcting that.
[23:10:49] <n1> I know the feeling, trust me
[23:10:54] <Woods> The selfish desire for sleep rears its head again!
[23:11:29] <n1> my france day trip has now become a germany day trip
[23:12:20] <Woods> Close enough.
[23:12:40] -!- Tachyon_ has quit [Quit: De omnibus dubitandum est.]
[23:16:50] <n1> i've never been to Germany, so it's something new
[23:29:03] <LaminatorX> I'm heading home. Good chat, crew.
[23:29:17] <n1> laters, LaminatorX
[23:29:18] <Woods> Bye
[23:29:31] <n1> i didn't see the time, it's 22:29, so I should put pizza in the oven
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