#editorial | Logs for 2014-04-04

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[00:30:22] <mattie_p> I haven't sen any new submissions come in for Build day 2, so I'll prep the story on for release unles there are objections
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[15:29:17] <janrinok> hi all
[15:31:57] * Bytram|afk is away: off to the day job... have fun folks!
[15:32:05] <janrinok> my Bytram|afk
[15:32:13] <janrinok> bye Bytram|afk
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[16:07:48] <weeds> Hello
[16:08:24] <janrinok> hi weeds
[16:08:58] <janrinok> brb
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[17:04:22] <weeds> janrinok: I notice there are some "!" commands in IRC such as current-uid and suggest. There are also the ++ and -- Karma modifiers. (I think these are just for fun.) Is there a list of these and are they open to all IRC'rs?
[17:10:06] <mrcoolbp> weeds: try !list
[17:13:20] <weeds> !list
[17:14:00] <weeds> ?
[17:14:30] <weeds> I suspect that would list the commands, but no response.
[17:14:45] <mrcoolbp> the bot isn't in here then
[17:14:47] <mrcoolbp> !help
[17:14:48] <SlimShady> documentation for jsonbot can be found at http://jsonbot.org
[17:14:52] <SlimShady> see !list for loaded plugins and "!help plugin" for help on the plugin.
[17:14:57] <mrcoolbp> !list
[17:14:57] <SlimShady> available plugins: admin, cfg, chan, chatlog, core, fleet, grabquote, ignore, irc, karma, koffie, lod, markov, more, plug, relay, soylentrss, sylnt, todo, twitter, uidchecker, urlinfo, user
[17:15:05] <mrcoolbp> works for me = )
[17:15:24] <mrcoolbp> oh you are not voiced in here weeds, maybe that's it
[17:15:31] <weeds> maybe since I'm in the web client?
[17:15:33] <mrcoolbp> .op
[17:15:33] -!- mode/#editorial [+o mrcoolbp] by SkyNet
[17:15:40] <weeds> !list
[17:16:03] <mrcoolbp> .voice weeds
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[17:16:05] <mrcoolbp> try now
[17:16:29] <weeds> !list
[17:16:40] <mrcoolbp> haha, he doesn't like you I guess
[17:16:54] <mrcoolbp> .devoice weeds
[17:16:55] -!- mode/#editorial [-v weeds] by SkyNet
[17:17:08] <mrcoolbp> weeds, go to #test
[17:17:15] <weeds> that URL for documentation for jasonbot is dead
[17:17:20] <mrcoolbp> oh I know
[17:17:36] <mrcoolbp> IRC bots is not my dept. that would be xlefay, but he has been very busy with sysops stuff
[17:23:18] <weeds> mrcoolbp: obviously not a high priority, just wondering
[17:23:37] <mrcoolbp> if you see xlefay or Landon, pester them
[17:23:49] <weeds> 10-4
[17:30:30] <xlefay> what's up?
[17:31:29] <xlefay> MrBluze|afk, ?
[17:31:31] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, *?
[17:31:53] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: weeds can't get the bot to respond to him
[17:31:59] <mrcoolbp> It's working fine for me
[17:34:00] <xlefay> weeds, are you here?
[17:39:03] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[17:39:46] <xlefay> psst, mrcoolbp for IRC stuff, can you forward people to #help in the future?
[17:40:11] <xlefay> IRC staff, whenever they're online, will be in #help - so easiest way to get someone help is #help :)
[17:40:13] <mrcoolbp> oh yes, sorry, I forwarded him to #test so he could mess around with the bot
[17:40:24] <mrcoolbp> will do sir
[17:40:33] <xlefay> No worries, only a few people seem to know about #help :)
[17:40:39] <xlefay> I should make sure it's a bit more public.
[17:41:25] <mrcoolbp> we should make it bold on: http://wiki.soylentnews.org
[17:41:35] <mrcoolbp> "Join #help if you need some"
[17:42:58] <xlefay> That IRC stuff on the wiki need fixing still :~/
[17:43:20] <mrcoolbp> yes = 0
[18:00:32] <NCommander> I actually once saw
[18:00:36] <NCommander> #define TRUE FALSE
[18:00:42] <NCommander> In an old project
[18:00:43] <NCommander> ;.;
[18:00:56] <xlefay> heh
[18:01:57] <weeds> thanks!
[18:02:07] <weeds> now I'm going to lunch
[19:33:49] janrinok|afk is now known as janrinok
[20:27:56] <janrinok> if there are any spare eds who can give my stories the second look I would appreciate it.
[20:32:53] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: possibly...
[20:33:57] <janrinok> if you hve the time, I would be grateful. mrcoolbp
[20:34:16] <janrinok> anything I can do to help you in return?
[20:35:05] <mrcoolbp> um...only thing I am really worried about is getting some kind of plan for setting up regular all-staff meetings
[20:35:27] <janrinok> ah, the herding cats conundrum....
[20:35:56] <janrinok> I would say mattie_p but he has got more than enough on his plate!
[20:38:49] <janrinok> brb
[20:38:57] <mrcoolbp> k
[20:42:57] <janrinok> OK, how far have you got and how can I help?
[20:44:07] <mrcoolbp> I had the idea to come up with a few times, then use the staff vote (people can add in more time-slots) then we could just vote
[20:46:48] <janrinok> OK, thinking laterally, I don't think that we will ever get everyone and the priority should be the team leaders (who can speak for the entire team should some not be available). And, secondly, doing it at a weekend is partly self-defeating because someone is missing their Saturday evening for what has, in the past, turned into a 2 hour bun fight. Comments so far?
[20:49:55] <mrcoolbp> sounds legit
[20:50:57] <xlefay> I'm available day 'n night, every day, unless you need me I'll be occupied
[20:53:30] <janrinok> So, if we accept what I have said, and following on from the management structure that NCommander wants us to follow. The individual teams should have a meeting and decide what needs to be discussed within their groups. The Team Leads (TL) have a meeting to resolve those issues. But there will be things arising that affect us all, so the TLs have to back brief their own teams on specific issues and then we use the new staff slash sit
[20:54:17] <xlefay> I've already called a meeting for Sysops; also going to call a meeting for IRC soon; but I really need to take a fucking break soon
[20:54:25] <xlefay> When are you thinking this "meeting" should take place?
[20:55:04] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: no idea
[20:55:16] <janrinok> How each team runs itself is no longer your problem mrcoolbp but one for the TLs. Once we have an issue that we _all_ need to be involved with then we can arrange a get together on the new site.
[20:55:20] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: NCommander wants to try to get staff meetings somewhat regular
[20:55:34] <xlefay> You guys replied on the owncloud thing yet? .. we can actually use the calendar facilities to make everyone aware of when, etc.
[20:55:57] <xlefay> + you can sync that calendar to your local's systems Calendar, so people will always be up-to-date about what & when.
[20:55:59] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: I did add it to the Communication Systems wiki page...
[20:56:15] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, I'm going to install it regardless, even if it's just so people can check it out initially
[20:56:24] <xlefay> I'll also have to patch it to use kerberos but that's no biggie
[20:56:32] <mrcoolbp> okay
[20:56:58] <janrinok> I can see what he is saying - but it becomes almost a waste of my time listening to the nitty gritty of how the other teams function because it doesn't affect my job. Nor do they want to listen to how editors are going to change the editing process _unless_ it is going to affect someone outside the editorial team.
[20:57:59] <NCommander> janrinok, ding ding ding
[20:58:02] <janrinok> please pull my thoughts to bits - I'm not even convinced that I'm right yest
[20:58:03] * NCommander hands janrinok bacon
[20:58:35] <NCommander> xlefay, I know the feeling
[20:59:25] <janrinok> it is the things that affect more than one team that need to be discussed more widely. Individual teams should discuss things at least weekly but do it internally so to speak.
[21:00:13] <janrinok> NCommander: does that fit in with your vision or am I missing something?
[21:01:32] <NCommander> janrinok, that sounds right
[21:01:35] * NCommander needs to re-read to make sure
[21:02:16] <NCommander> mrcoolbp, janrinok: I still feel its valuable to have an allhands staff meeting as sometimes things get lost in the cracks
[21:02:28] <janrinok> so there is rarely a need to get all ten zillion of us together at the same time. TLs should arrange within their groups when to have their regular meets.
[21:02:33] <NCommander> Maybe limit it to one a month
[21:02:44] <NCommander> janrinok, and then let TL work out their own meeting schedule
[21:02:58] <janrinok> Wouldn't that be ideal on the new site or do you need something more responsive?
[21:04:16] <xlefay> NCommander, I second that, I don't want a pre-set meeting if there's no need for it. Although, I do really want a way to schedule meetings effectively.
[21:04:20] * mrcoolbp notes we should have this discussion in #staff
[21:05:23] <janrinok> Now, the way to make sure it happens within teams, is to task TLs to brief you on a regular basis - weekly, fortnightly, whatever - so that NC knows that the meetings are taking place and, if necessary, call a full meeting at a time TBD.
[21:06:22] <janrinok> That's a very military way of looking at it but that is my background.
[21:07:21] <janrinok> NC what is your preferred medium for the all-hands meetings. IRC, the new site, email ?
[21:08:54] <mrcoolbp> I'd say IRC, if 80% of people are there and it is logged, that should work
[21:09:00] <janrinok> NCommander: ^
[21:09:44] <NCommander> I prefer real time for meetings
[21:09:49] <NCommander> But each team can decide their own
[21:09:57] <janrinok> ok, so first (sunday) of every month at xx:xx UTC we gather on IRC #staff.
[21:10:02] <xlefay> janrinok, meh, if I have something to tell NC on behalf of IRC or Sysops, I'll do so whenever I need to
[21:10:07] <NCommander> This link is shitting so hard I can't get in over SSH
[21:10:07] <NCommander> */annoyed*
[21:10:25] <xlefay> I'm not inclined to bug him every week or so for nothing
[21:10:28] <xlefay> NCommander, mosh ;]
[21:10:50] <janrinok> xlefay: that is a team issue and of course you can always do that. But is it something that you have to discuss with everyone else?
[21:12:08] <xlefay> janrinok, about bugging NC to give him weekly status reports?
[21:12:41] <janrinok> xlefay: it isn't a case of you can _only_ speak to him then, but it is more a way of NC making sure that TL do speak to their teams _at_least_ once a week.
[21:13:09] <janrinok> xlefay: does that make sense now?
[21:13:30] <xlefay> but would I need to organize weekly meetings? People are awfully busy in their own lives too, I'd rather do monthly meetings if really need be
[21:14:55] <xlefay> (even better, I'd like to have meetings when one of the team things it's needed; and the occasional "regular" meeting, e.g. per month)
[21:14:57] <janrinok> How you run your team is up to you. As long as you represent your team to the next level up of management (NC in your case) then meetings might not be necessary. But, for example, the editors are never all on at the same time so we would have to arrange a meeting every so often just so we all know what is going on.
[21:15:44] <xlefay> teams* and yeah, that's one of the reasons I wanted a damn communication thing :P
[21:15:52] <xlefay> So we can effectively keep everyone up to date about stuff'
[21:17:05] <janrinok> exactly. And for the monthly meeting a fixed day and time each month saves all the problems of having to go round and find when everyone is available. Do it once, and choose the time when _most_ people can make it.
[21:17:16] <xlefay> I agree on that oen
[21:17:22] <xlefay> one* that would be useful
[21:19:00] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: you've not said much - do you agree or have you spotted a fly in the ointment?
[21:19:38] <mrcoolbp> I was watching you guys discuss, I was hoping for NCommander to add a *little* more as this is his idea
[21:19:52] <janrinok> lol - I know what you mean!
[21:19:55] * mrcoolbp is also working on a discussion for the staff slash
[21:20:06] <janrinok> np
[21:20:07] <mrcoolbp> I'll catch up in 2 seconds and add my bit
[21:22:12] <mrcoolbp> NCommander: I agree with janrinok
[21:22:24] <mrcoolbp> people need to gripe to their TLs
[21:22:26] <xlefay> I agree with mrcoolbp
[21:22:32] <mrcoolbp> TLs should meet with NC
[21:22:51] <mrcoolbp> it will be a clusterf%$@ trying to get ALL staff together on a regular basis
[21:23:09] <xlefay> We should also have full staff meetings imo though; maybe once every three months or so
[21:23:11] <mrcoolbp> if TLs aren't communicating with NC properly, we have bigger problems I'd say
[21:23:21] <mrcoolbp> once/3mo is viable
[21:23:33] <mrcoolbp> once/mo will be difficult
[21:23:33] <xlefay> As for properly communicating; that really just depends
[21:23:48] <xlefay> e.g. I'm the leader of both IRC & Sysops; IRC isn't as eventful as Sysops
[21:24:12] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: but you are available to your team (you are good at communicating)
[21:24:17] <mrcoolbp> teams*
[21:24:18] <xlefay> e.g. what could I possibly have to report to NC that I as a sysop can't fix myself?
[21:24:30] <xlefay> Thank you, I appreciate that :)
[21:24:31] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: issues staff present
[21:24:32] <xlefay> And I try hehe
[21:24:47] <mrcoolbp> your minions don't like x, or have suggestion y
[21:24:51] <xlefay> At this point I haven't heard any, but you're right
[21:24:59] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, s/minions/members/ :)
[21:25:04] <janrinok> nothing - but you could let him know of the sort of difficulties you might be having xlefay - no one is doubting your own abilities.
[21:25:09] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: sure = )
[21:25:38] <xlefay> janrinok, I suppose that's true
[21:25:47] <mrcoolbp> team leaders should try to solve problems, but should report to NC with any large-ish issues I'd imagine
[21:26:17] * mrcoolbp notes that again, this discussion should be happening in #staff....
[21:26:35] <mrcoolbp> sigh, let me try to finish up this Name Vote story
[21:26:38] <janrinok> NCommander's problem was not being aware of what was happening around him. There were multiple reasons for that, one of which was the old style of organisation didn't communicate with anyone at all!
[21:26:55] <janrinok> shall we switch to #staff
[21:27:07] <xlefay> how di I link in articles?
[21:27:15] <xlefay> ugh I'm to tired to properly think about this
[21:27:16] <janrinok> where
[21:27:22] <janrinok> in what document?
[21:27:24] <xlefay> https://chillax.soylentnews.org
[21:27:28] <xlefay> oops
[21:27:33] <xlefay> I just linked that in public, oh well
[21:28:08] <janrinok> <a href"some/url/here">this is the article~</a>
[21:28:24] <janrinok> href=".....
[21:28:27] <janrinok> sorry
[21:28:34] <xlefay> ah just a general a href
[21:28:37] <janrinok> yep
[21:28:49] <xlefay> I can do that (as a web developer, I'd be surprised if I couldn't!)
[21:28:59] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: it's okay, we don't have anything sensitive on there, honestly I'd like to have most of it public, with a "channel" for private stuff if possible, but that's just me maybe
[21:29:03] <janrinok> I know, who edits like that nowadays! unfortunately - we do!
[21:29:12] <mrcoolbp> publicly viewable....
[21:29:30] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, ugh I know
[21:29:36] <xlefay> but atm it's not that much of a disaster
[21:29:54] <mrcoolbp> guys BRB food/finishing this story
[21:30:06] <janrinok> food is more important!
[21:31:28] <janrinok> xlefay: when do you actually sleep?
[21:32:05] <xlefay> ugh, every 16 hours or so for 4 hours or so
[21:32:26] <janrinok> ouch - that's not much. Do you manage like that ?
[21:32:50] <xlefay> I'm still alive and 'they' still haven't caught me!
[21:32:58] <janrinok> lol - good enough!
[21:33:26] janrinok is now known as janrinok|afk
[21:39:59] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: can you check out this story? https://chillax.soylentnews.org
[21:40:08] <mrcoolbp> I haven't set it to "display" yet
[21:40:12] <mrcoolbp> BRB
[21:45:23] <xlefay> mrcoolbp, looks well
[21:45:33] <mrcoolbp> okay, gonna throw it up
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[22:41:33] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: not sure about the CSU story, I also can't find any corraboration, not sure if we should post "rumors"
[22:41:58] <mrcoolbp> janrinok: maybe bump it in the queue for now??
[22:43:16] <janrinok> sure, I've got no problems with that
[22:43:53] <janrinok> done
[22:45:18] <mrcoolbp> thanks, I need to sign off, I might be able to check a few of those stories but I do have to run off and play a show tonight = )
[22:46:15] <janrinok> mrcoolbp: was there any resolution, further input to the meeting debate? I had to go and look after my wife for a while.
[22:46:50] <mrcoolbp> not yet, but your thoughs are very helpful, I'll follow up with NC eventually
[22:46:52] <mrcoolbp> thanks!!
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